with current performance due to club technology, has it plateaued under the current rulings…according to Mr Frank Thomas of USGA it certainly has
do you agree ?...i do

what do u think ?

Yup. Not much room to move now. The limits are set.

Nigel,

I believe you’re a club maker. Who do you work for?

And a good thing too. I think if technology had continued to evolve at its current pace, we would have swing speeds of 80 driving par 5s. Well maybe not that extreme, but if NASA started telling there technology to clubmakers I think you could see Clubs that are so light that you don’t even know you are holding them.

So how are they going to sell us new sticks? Interesting to see the number of ads for “straighter” drivers rather than longer.

MOI is fixed too
so straighter drives are numbered too

also called the laws of diminishing returns in natural physics

Looks like they will need to start sacking the R & D boys and hiring more marketing types!

Dont believe everything you read! ;-)

I am negotiating with a proto clubhead currently that is extremely HOT and adheres to the USGA rules!

Shafts that are designed for distance producing can increase the power of any club. There are only two worth their salt on the market currently! The battle is hotting up!

Anyone who thinks technological advancements are dead is kidding themselves. Like athletes that push the envelope with drug testing, plenty of club manufacturers are finding ways to produce new and improved equipment!!

Nigel,

I believe you’re a club maker. Who do you work for?

No one, I just do one offs, for friends only.

Dont believe everything you read! ;-)

I am negotiating with a proto clubhead currently that is extremely HOT and adheres to the USGA rules!

Shafts that are designed for distance producing can increase the power of any club. There are only two worth their salt on the market currently! The battle is hotting up!

Anyone who thinks technological advancements are dead is kidding themselves. Like athletes that push the envelope with drug testing, plenty of club manufacturers are finding ways to produce new and improved equipment!!

Have you been reading ads again. Rules are rules, live in the world of physics. You can not cheat the test.

Dont believe everything you read! ;-)

I am negotiating with a proto clubhead currently that is extremely HOT and adheres to the USGA rules!

Shafts that are designed for distance producing can increase the power of any club. There are only two worth their salt on the market currently! The battle is hotting up!

Anyone who thinks technological advancements are dead is kidding themselves. Like athletes that push the envelope with drug testing, plenty of club manufacturers are finding ways to produce new and improved equipment!!

I agree

but the curve is not as steep as before
and that’s the reality

what’s next the 9 sec barrier for the 100m to be broken ? maybe …. highly unlikely in our life time

so unless the USGA chages its ruling on equipment, there is a natural wall there

btw what 2 shafts are you alluding to ?

I love your posts Nigelo. Do you even know half the stuff that is on the market? Have you received any prototype clubs of late?

I agree it is over for the average golfer. Do you know what is possible at the top end where we compete though? With clubheads speeds in excess of 135-150mph and ball speeds of 190-210 plus, do you not think things react differently???

i think there is a difference between the ‘evolving’ human athletic capabilities and the club technology in it of itself.

you will see taller, stronger, more powerful built people with better nutrients, exercise/training, ‘genetic’ manipulation…

the material performance curve (for drivers) may not be flat yet, but certainly in no was as steep as say 5 to 10 years ago, and thats the ‘current’ truth. – even tom wishon admits so.
maybe the next stop over is NASA as Mr C jokingly said (but surely must contain much truth in it)....to help find more ideas to increase the gradient of the curve

It was always going to plataue…..which is a good thing….btween 2002 and 2008 we have seen a massive change

I think from 2008 to 2014 we wont see the same hike in technolgy

shafts have room to improve I think…the humble ball will improve a bit I think too

It was always going to plataue…..which is a good thing….btween 2002 and 2008 we have seen a massive change

I think from 2008 to 2014 we wont see the same hike in technolgy

shafts have room to improve I think…the humble ball will improve a bit I think too

that’s why callaways n TM etc are having the technology ‘spread’ out to changeable shafts in real time on the run

Of course things will change, it’s what we humans are so good at. The equipment will always find a way around the rules, it happens in all sports, look at motorsport, even football gets better (well sort of) chess is about the only game that never changes…. bloody monopoly just went electronic.

Cliff:

Exactly right. I think the people that have the tunnel vision to think that the limitations that have been set down by the USGA will stop progress by club manufacturers are kidding themselves. I can tell you for a fact that clubs react differently at the top end. May be naivity on the behalves of some people because they have not seen it for themselves. Humans progess, it’s life. (and the way the USGA test COR is not exactly top shelf science!). Some clubheads don’t start performing at the peak til the swing speeds exceed 110mph (another fact). Some of us can’t hit the thinner faces produced by OEMs on the market – the cave in. I personally keep one driver for practice only and that is starting to flat spot and dent!

Mr C & KYC:

Many Club manufacturers already employ ex NASA scientists as part of their design team. There is big money in golf, and with the slowing in the space race, some of the scientists are coming over to golf to chase the almighty dollar.

KYC:

The dominant shaft in LD has long been the UST Proforce V2 LD which has also translated to the production of the UST Proforce V2 standard golf shaft being utilised on the tours across the world.

The new kid on the block is the House of Forged White Shaft (WHUP n SHAFT) which is currently beginning to out perform the V2 on the LD tour. The ball flight is flatter and more parabolic resulting in the ball landing hotter and running more. House of Forged have also now released a traditional golf shaft modelled on its LD brother. It has the same characteristics, is manufactured by US shaft giant Matrix and is called the Patriot.

Thanks AB
fascinating stuff i must say

I must agree shafts are imperative players/variables on the performance curve as well…good point
and this is where great gains can be made even further

has any one thought how would golf in terms of equipment n its performance in 20 years time ?? food 4 tot

I believe that for normal golfers (club level and the pros) things have reached a peak (or getting very close) in the cor and moi area.
The next advances will be how to either ‘cheat’ the tests or push even further to the limits thru different designs and so forth.
One thing to note as mentioned is the shaft technology. The next biggest gains will probably be here (almost certain).
The reference to LD and it’s overall influence on the equipment that normal golfers are using (and I put the PGA pros in this category of ‘normal golfers’) has probably been over emphasized. We are talking a whole different category of people and equipment that as stated performs differently and sometimes won’t even perform until the clubhead speeds are way up there. How this correlates back to normal golfers is sometimes (and probably mostly) irrelevant.
cheers

I believe that for normal golfers (club level and the pros) things have reached a peak (or getting very close) in the cor and moi area.
The next advances will be how to either ‘cheat’ the tests or push even further to the limits thru different designs and so forth.
One thing to note as mentioned is the shaft technology. The next biggest gains will probably be here (almost certain).
The reference to LD and it’s overall influence on the equipment that normal golfers are using (and I put the PGA pros in this category of ‘normal golfers’) has probably been over emphasized. We are talking a whole different category of people and equipment that as stated performs differently and sometimes won’t even perform until the clubhead speeds are way up there. How this correlates back to normal golfers is sometimes (and probably mostly) irrelevant.
cheers

You may as well say Honda get nothing out of F1 racing and MotoGP except to underline the difference between supermen and normal men. The pinnacle of any technically oriented sport always filters down improvements to the basic level. You can’t differentiate between the LD guys and us, we do the same thing, just at different levels.

I believe that for normal golfers (club level and the pros) things have reached a peak (or getting very close) in the cor and moi area.
The next advances will be how to either ‘cheat’ the tests or push even further to the limits thru different designs and so forth.
One thing to note as mentioned is the shaft technology. The next biggest gains will probably be here (almost certain).
The reference to LD and it’s overall influence on the equipment that normal golfers are using (and I put the PGA pros in this category of ‘normal golfers’) has probably been over emphasized. We are talking a whole different category of people and equipment that as stated performs differently and sometimes won’t even perform until the clubhead speeds are way up there. How this correlates back to normal golfers is sometimes (and probably mostly) irrelevant.
cheers

You may as well say Honda get nothing out of F1 racing and MotoGP except to underline the difference between supermen and normal men. The pinnacle of any technically oriented sport always filters down improvements to the basic level. You can’t differentiate between the LD guys and us, we do the same thing, just at different levels.

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

You are spot on Cliff. Does F1 testing have an influence on the family car? Of course. Does want happen on the tours influence what happens in golf shops? Of course it does.

Anybody who thinks that the USGA testing limits actually prevents hot equipment getting out is kidding themselves. The club manufacturers have better scientists working for them I can assure you, they pay better!! hahaha… Does nobody think that these design guru’s have ways to get around a simplistic test? That’s a bit of wishful thinking in my eyes. There are clubfitters around that can take a “standard” clubhead and can completely rework its performance!

Until the USGA gets on the first tee of every tournament world wide and tests every individual driver as every single pro hits off whether it be in LD or on PGA tours, there is no assurance that the final product always adheres to the “limits”. It will always be an assumption of fair play. Anyone who thinks that the limits are being stringently adhered to is kidding themselves. Therefore technology will always evolve!

The pinnacle of any technically oriented sport always filters down improvements to the basic level.

Ok, not trying to bring anyone down here but I personally don’t regard LD as the pinnacle of the sport of golf. It is a great twist of the sport but it is far from the pinnacle! If it were the pinnacle (ala F1 of motorsport) then I think the LD guys would be banking the millions not the PGA pros on nearly all tours across the globe.

My original comments if read carefully were about normal club golfers (and even the pros) and the technology limits being reached in that realm. I also said that I agreed that the technology maybe moving forward in the LD arena. Please go back and read it before jumping down anyones throat. Heck, if you go back and read your own posts Aussie bomber I think you even stated the very same thing:

I love your posts Nigelo. Do you even know half the stuff that is on the market? Have you received any prototype clubs of late?I agree it is over for the average golfer.

Please stop telling me that I am kidding myself. We all can agree to disagree here most of the time.
cheers

1. I have never stated that LD is the pinnacle of golf. Check you facts on that one. Do the LD guys maximise driver performance better than most? It is highly likely. PS – Money isn’t everything, enjoyment is part of the game too.

2. You include PGA pros in the realms of “normal” golfers. As a normal golfer would you state that you are in the same category of driver ability as Tiger Woods, Bubba Watson, John Daly or Sergio Garcia? Didn’t think so. Therefore to state that advances in technology apply to you (normal golfer) in the same manner as someone who is an elite golfer (eg PGA pro) is a bold statement indeed.

3. I stated that the clubhead technology limit has probably been reached for the “average” golfer, as most aren’t able to currently maximise the technology that is already available.

4. If the testing is not done on a individual club by club basis at every tournament across the world, how can one be sure that “limits” are adhered to? Faith does not necessarily so.

5. I have never once referred to you personally so I suggest you re-read all of my statements as you are one choosing to wear them. I did state “anyone” but If that cap fits you, feel free to wear it!

6. Opinion is one thing and yes we will not agree – this is the beauty of a democratic society. Having an opinion that is based on narrow assumptions without seeing what other guys are capable of doing with it (and no I am not referring to myself)is always going to be strongly debated.

Some of the statements are nearly as ludricrous as saying that “A beginner guitarist will achieve the same quality of music as Jimi Hendrix because their guitars both have a limit of 6 strings!”

1. I have never stated that LD is the pinnacle of golf. Check you facts on that one.

Yep you are right that was someone else.

Please stop the dribble now, I’m drowning!