Hi guys,

I have rifle 5.0 (steel) in all my clubs except driver which is Acuflex Regular. My question is based on the chart in the link below:

http://www.golfsmith.com/cm...

My driver carries 240mtrs (9.5 degree) and my 8 iron carries 150-165mtrs (all clubs have a high trajectory with a soft draw and I can fade easily enough), according to the chart I should be using xstiff shafts.

The reason I ask the question (should I reshaft?) is my approach shots from 120-180mtrs rarely find their target due to distance, usually hit too long with the club I think I should hit and when I go down a club I almost always fall short either by landing short or spinning off the green. One benefit is I am now really good at the short chip’n run which gets me up and down from just off the green so par is not too hard to get but birdies are becoming more rare as a result.

So should I look at reshafing my clubs or should I see a coach and adjust my swing?

Why would you reshaft if you hit your 8 iron 150+? I’d just get your yardages sorted out.

Yes reshaft and get your lofts checked while you’re at it. Hitting the ball those distances you must have a fairly high clubhead speed and Rifle 5.0 is for slow swingspeeds. I had Rifle 5.5 shafts and after asking the same question as you, changed to the 6.0’s and my trajectory has improved and I am actually hitting it further with a much narrower dispersement pattern.

Am getting 6.5’s in my next irons. Tell me do you sometimes miss left with a very high ballflight? If so go stiffer.

Brett,

Forget the chart and forget the above advice (sorry OEJ). For the thousanth time, choosing the correct shaft has very little to do with swing speed. Tempo, transition and wrist action are greater considerations than swing speed.

Your carry distances are quite long, but it might just be that 5.0 (reg) is the correct flex for you. It might also be that someone with a slower swing speed than yours requires a stiffer shaft.

See a clubfitter who knows what they are doing and get fitted. But if the fitter says your swing speed is X mph so you will need Y shaft, then walk out – they don’t know what they are doing.

Mick

vman

While you are entitled to your opinion it is only YOUR opinion. Very little to do with swing speed????

Of course swing speed determines flex. Once you establish the flex for the swingspeed you can choose the shaft with the correct kick point, tip flex, torque and weight etc that suits your tempo, wrist action etc.

Of course this is only MY opinion Brett but I suggest do as vman says and go to a clubfitter who knows what they are doing. I was lucky enough to attend a Titleist mobile fitting centre who after checking my swing speed then consulted a chart to get the suitable flex and we went from there to get the right kickpoint etc for my tempo and the rest, but apparently I should have walked out.

By the way I ended up with the 905R driver with stiff flex V2 proforce shaft and it goes great.

vman

While you are entitled to your opinion it is only YOUR opinion. Very little to do with swing speed????

Of course swing speed determines flex. Once you establish the flex for the swingspeed you can choose the shaft with the correct kick point, tip flex, torque and weight etc that suits your tempo, wrist action etc.

Yes, it is my opinion, but it is based on a great deal of knowledge and is one shared by many, if not most, of the better club fitters worldwide.

You also are entitled to your opinions, but I can state absolutely, and with no doubt at all, that swing speed ‘alone’ does NOT determine flex. It is just one of several considerations when shaft fitting.

Any good clubfitter does not necessarily bother themselves with overall flex any way. Of greater concern is the shaft ‘profile’.

This is the abreviated version of how I fit golfers for shafts:

1. I check their swing speed and swing time (time taken from takeaway to impact). From these figures I can calculate the tempo of the golfers swing.

2. I watch, and if necessary video, their swings, firstly paying particular attention to the speed of their transition at the top of the backswing.

3. I now have enough information to determine ‘butt frequency’ (or stiffness of the butt section of the shaft). Players with faster ‘tempos’ (not necessarily swing speed) and quicker transitions at the top will generally require stiffer ‘butt’ sections, while players with slower tempos (not swing speed) and more gentle transitions at the top will generally require softer ‘butt’ sections.

4. I then turn my attention to the golfer’s wrist action, noting whether the wrists release early or late.

5. I then check the launch angle, noting whether the trajectory is higher or lower than optimum.

6. I now have enough information to determine ‘tip frequency’ (or stiffness of the tip section of the shaft). Generally golfers with late, powerful wrist releases and higher launch angles will require stiffer ‘tip’ sections while golfers with lower launch angles will generally require softer ‘tip’ sections. Note how I didn’t mention early wrist release, as these golfers will not generally benefit by changes in tip frequency one way or the other.

7. Once I have determined the correct butt and tip frequencies, I will THEN calculate swing speed into the equation. But the overall flex of the shaft is already a long way to being determined by the afore mentioned factors.

For example, the golfer with the fast tempo and quick transition, but slow swing speed, will require a stiff ‘butt’ section. Since butt frequency largely determines overall frequency, the golfer will necessarily end up with a shaft that has an overall flex rating which is stiffer than swing speed charts would suggest.

Alternately, the golfer with a slow tempo and gentle transition, but fast swing speed, will require a softer ‘butt’ section. The golfer will end up with a shaft which is softer than the swing charts would suggest.

This is one of the reasons why there is such a large dispersion in frequency within shafts of the same flex ratings. The manufacturers, to varying degrees, try to account for shaft profiles when designating flex ratings.

I have probably just confused the issue unnecessarily, but I hoped to demonstrate just how small a part swing speed plays in shaft fitting IF DONE PROPERLY.

Mick

I have probably just confused the issue unnecessarily, but I hoped to demonstrate just how small a part swing speed plays in shaft fitting IF DONE PROPERLY.

Mick

You have confused me Mick, because as I read it you are saying that, quote ” just how small a part swing speed plays in shaft fitting.” Yet out of the six points that you used as a reference to your fitting program, three of those directly use speed as the main formula. e.g. 1/ Swing speed and tempo. 2/ Speed of transition. 4/ Wrist speed. So, if speed is not that big a deal, then why is it so frequently used to help determine which shaft/flex is the best ? Jon…

IYou have confused me Mick, because as I read it you are saying that, quote ” just how small a part swing speed plays in shaft fitting.” Yet out of the six points that you used as a reference to your fitting program, three of those directly use speed as the main formula. e.g. 1/ Swing speed and tempo. 2/ Speed of transition. 4/ Wrist speed. So, if speed is not that big a deal, then why is it so frequently used to help determine which shaft/flex is the best ? Jon…

Jon,

As you know, ‘swing’ speed is the commonly used term for clubhead speed.

Only in point 1 and 7 do I refer to ‘swing’ or ‘clubhead’ speed. In point 1, the swing speed is considered with the swing time and I calculate the swing ‘tempo’. So, a fast swing ‘speed’ combined with a longer swing ‘time’ will give a moderate swing ‘tempo’.

‘Speed of transition’ has nothing to do with clubhead speed. It is how quickly the golfer moves from the backswing into the downswing.

I never used the term ‘wrist speed’. I don’t know where you read that. I refered to how early or late the wrist release occurred an how powerful it was. No mention of speed. And no direct connection to clubhead speed.

It might pay to read the post a bit more carefully before commenting. ;)

I certainly hope that you work on a lot more than just clubhead speed when you are club fitting. Otherwise, many golfers will be walking out the door with mis-fitted shafts.

Mick

Mick is correct. Clubhead speed is really the last determining factor of how a shaft should be fitted. Wrist release, tempo, transition are MUCH more important than raw clubhead speed.

Mick is on the money. I’m also a pretty heavy hitter and use 5.0. On a swing speed chart I should be around 6.0. and the 5.0 is a much better fit for transion tempo and wrist cock release and the 5.0 just feels much better.

I had a chap once who had a driver speed of 120mph+. He had been fitted for his whole set in S or X’s. His irons when out long but too hot to stop on greens. When I checked his ball strikes on his irons they were dead center 95% of the time and only just off when he missed. His iron swing speed was 80ish. Gave him an R flex and said come back and tell me how you hit it…...on the money.

HOW you hit it with your speed has to be taken into account as a raw speed can be misleading and in the case above even worse and assumed speed can be deadly.

Are you absolutely sure about those yardages!!!! or is 8 iron just what you call your favourite rpg.

Hi guys,

I have rifle 5.0 (steel) in all my clubs except driver which is Acuflex Regular. My question is based on the chart in the link below:

http://www.golfsmith.com/cm...

My driver carries 240mtrs (9.5 degree) and my 8 iron carries 150-165mtrs (all clubs have a high trajectory with a soft draw and I can fade easily enough), according to the chart I should be using xstiff shafts.

The reason I ask the question (should I reshaft?) is my approach shots from 120-180mtrs rarely find their target due to distance, usually hit too long with the club I think I should hit and when I go down a club I almost always fall short either by landing short or spinning off the green. One benefit is I am now really good at the short chip’n run which gets me up and down from just off the green so par is not too hard to get but birdies are becoming more rare as a result.

So should I look at reshafing my clubs or should I see a coach and adjust my swing? when i read that post i printed it out and put it straight in the pool room!!! dreaming.

I love these no name posts, at least I put my name to mine!

I am open to play with anyone on this forum as I have done in the past. There are a few guys here who played with me at Royal Melbourne 2 years ago when I eagled a straight par 5 (450 metres if I recall), driver off the tee and stuck a 9 iron 10 feet from the hole (I won’t bother with the metres you can work it out). The point of the post is not a question about how far I want to be able to hit with a particular club, I have learnt that the bigger you hit the less accuracy you have which is counter active. I wan’t to know if changing the shaft will give me more accuracy, consistant distances between clubs, lower ball trajectory etc. If this means losing 20% of my length so be it.

I do appreciate the comments from ISG members are providing constructive advice and the odd joke of course, but please don’t label me a braggad.

I love these no name posts, at least I put my name to mine!

I am open to play with anyone on this forum as I have done in the past. There are a few guys here who played with me at Royal Melbourne 2 years ago when I eagled a straight par 5 (450 metres if I recall), driver off the tee and stuck a 9 iron 10 feet from the hole (I won’t bother with the metres you can work it out). The point of the post is not a question about how far I want to be able to hit with a particular club, I have learnt that the bigger you hit the less accuracy you have which is counter active. I wan’t to know if changing the shaft will give me more accuracy, consistant distances between clubs, lower ball trajectory etc. If this means losing 20% of my length so be it.

I do appreciate the comments from ISG members are providing constructive advice and the odd joke of course, but please don’t label me a braggad.

Make test club, Say a 8i with the same design, loff lie grip, but change your shaft 6.0, DGs300, etc and see if it works. experment with the shaft set up. I’ve tried about 8 different iron shafts + flexs to the ones that i’m using now, shaft fitting, as in alot of things in golf is a very personal thing. What might feel good to you might feel like sh#% to some one else.

I love these no name posts, at least I put my name to mine!

I am open to play with anyone on this forum as I have done in the past. There are a few guys here who played with me at Royal Melbourne 2 years ago when I eagled a straight par 5 (450 metres if I recall), driver off the tee and stuck a 9 iron 10 feet from the hole (I won’t bother with the metres you can work it out). The point of the post is not a question about how far I want to be able to hit with a particular club, I have learnt that the bigger you hit the less accuracy you have which is counter active. I wan’t to know if changing the shaft will give me more accuracy, consistant distances between clubs, lower ball trajectory etc. If this means losing 20% of my length so be it.

I do appreciate the comments from ISG members are providing constructive advice and the odd joke of course, but please don’t label me a braggad.

Make test club, Say a 8i with the same design, loff lie grip, but change your shaft 6.0, DGs300, etc and see if it works. experment with the shaft set up. I’ve tried about 8 different iron shafts + flexs to the ones that i’m using now, shaft fitting, as in alot of things in golf is a very personal thing. What might feel good to you might feel like sh#% to some one else.

Finally someone gives this guy good advice. I thought we were never going to get there. I’d say use a 6 iron as it’s roughly in the middle of your set. Brett, you didn’t say what you thought of the feel of your current shaft set up. Is it possible that you are hammering your irons a bit rather than trying to smooth them? This may account for the inconsistent distances.

Brett, you didn’t say what you thought of the feel of your current shaft set up. Is it possible that you are hammering your irons a bit rather than trying to smooth them? This may account for the inconsistent distances.

The feel of my current shafts…that’s a good question. They feel much better than my dynamic gold stiff shafts in my old set (stainless steel cobra blades from the early 90’s) and they have a lot less feedback on miss hits but they may be the club head of the current set (maxfli revolution not the standard ones everyone uses these are different, oversize muscle back ). I’ve got to admit my old set is a good club less in distance and trajectory as well but no gaps between them.

I have been thinking about using the old clubs again but what a waste of money that would be, $1500 down the drain and the leader of the opposition would freak!!! :-O

The worst bit about the problem is the inconsistent distance as you mentioned plus the gaps between the clubs. I may have to pull the 6 iron out of the bag and test it as advised because I really don’t want to sell these, 5 years and not a scratch on’em.

Brett

Related to the topic, but off the beaten track a little. What is the rule of thumb when it comes to shaft flex and type? Swingspeed, launch etc?

My driver swingspeed was clocked at 98mph at my last lesson, so my iron speed would be somewhere near that. What would I be looking for in a shaft? I play off 20 h/c and have changed my grip, swing the and whole thing just lately (since seeking professional help from my club pro). You fellas sound like you play off very low h/c, I am a world away from that. But will the shaft type affect a player of my ability?

IYou have confused me Mick, because as I read it you are saying that, quote ” just how small a part swing speed plays in shaft fitting.” Yet out of the six points that you used as a reference to your fitting program, three of those directly use speed as the main formula. e.g. 1/ Swing speed and tempo. 2/ Speed of transition. 4/ Wrist speed. So, if speed is not that big a deal, then why is it so frequently used to help determine which shaft/flex is the best ? Jon…

Jon,

As you know, ‘swing’ speed is the commonly used term for clubhead speed.

Only in point 1 and 7 do I refer to ‘swing’ or ‘clubhead’ speed. In point 1, the swing speed is considered with the swing time and I calculate the swing ‘tempo’. So, a fast swing ‘speed’ combined with a longer swing ‘time’ will give a moderate swing ‘tempo’.

‘Speed of transition’ has nothing to do with clubhead speed. It is how quickly the golfer moves from the backswing into the downswing.

I never used the term ‘wrist speed’. I don’t know where you read that. I refered to how early or late the wrist release occurred an how powerful it was. No mention of speed. And no direct connection to clubhead speed.

It might pay to read the post a bit more carefully before commenting. ;)

I certainly hope that you work on a lot more than just clubhead speed when you are club fitting. Otherwise, many golfers will be walking out the door with mis-fitted shafts.

Mick

Mick my bad, seems I gave you one to many speeds in the question. Yes you are right, alot of other parts make up the whole picture when determining shaft selection. I do try not to make it to confusing for the average punter though. Jon…

Hey Brett, I’m still using Cobra mild steel irons from the early nineties. I did have DG S300 shafts for a few years then changed to Rifle 5.5 when I stopped playing regulary. The rifle felt a lot better than the DG. Most of the Cobra irons back then were at least a 28* five iron, where today I see some 5 irons can be as low as 23*, plus the standard length has increased by half an inch. That probably explains the increase in distance, but not the gaps you’re experiencing with the new set.

I’m the opposite to you in that these days I’m lucky to get a five iron ( really a modern 6 iron:) 150m lol , but I have a lots of GIR due to the consistency of my irons. However, initally I had inconsistency with the DG and for example felt more comfortable with the 2 iron than the five iron. The club fitter who fitted the rifle 5.5 said some of my DG irons he tested were X100+!!! and wondered how I hit them. Anyway, I guess it’s possible for a set to be made up incorrectly, and according to the club fitter this is what happened to me.

Brett, It might not be your shafts causing the problem get you lofts checked to see if the gaps are equal i.e 4 deg beween each one. Cheers Nigel

I do try not to make it to confusing for the average punter though. Jon…

I agree Jon, but I was just responding to this:

“Of course swing speed determines flex. Once you establish the flex for the swingspeed you can choose the shaft with the correct kick point, tip flex, torque and weight etc that suits your tempo, wrist action etc.”

Just trying to make the point that it is not that simple.

Mick

Brett, It might not be your shafts causing the problem get you lofts checked to see if the gaps are equal i.e 4 deg beween each one. Cheers Nigel

Didn’t think of that one.

Does anyone recommend a club fitter who can help me in Melbourne?

Brett, It might not be your shafts causing the problem get you lofts checked to see if the gaps are equal i.e 4 deg beween each one. Cheers Nigel

Didn’t think of that one.

Does anyone recommend a club fitter who can help me in Melbourne?

I think Mick is near or in Melbourne

Brett, It might not be your shafts causing the problem get you lofts checked to see if the gaps are equal i.e 4 deg beween each one. Cheers Nigel

Didn’t think of that one.

Does anyone recommend a club fitter who can help me in Melbourne?

I think Mick is near or in Melbourne

I am an hour north of Melbourne, but any pro or clubfitter should be able to check and adjust your lofts. You should also get your lie angles checked at the same time.

Mick