After all the hoohar with Indacup and the other resident fitters, it seems that the some of the fitters claim, the shaft will not increase/reduce spin and launch.

My question is, if this is the case, what does a shaft do in terms on the shot. If it cannot control launch and spin, whats the benefit to me, buying a $25 POS graphite compared to a $500 Diamana or soemthing equally expensive.

There must be something it does. People say 'profiling shafts', but how do the results relate back to how the shaft performs?

Grumpy,

I don't think even Ben would suggest that the shaft has NO impact on launch angle and spin. It is just that the shaft has a minimal effect when compared with other factors such as clubhead loft and angle of attack.

I think what has been suggested in other threads is that, if you want a higher ball flight, look at a clubhead with greater loft rather than shaft selection.

Having said that, shaft profiling is still very important. All golfers load the shaft differently and it is important to select a shaft with the qualities best suited to each golfer. Put simply, golfers with quick transitions at the top and a fast start down will tend to place greater load on the butt section of the shaft and will generally require shafts with stiffer butt sections. While golfers with a strong, late release will tend to place greater load on the tip section of the shaft and will generally require shafts with stiffer, low torque tip sections.

An incorrectly fitted shaft will cause the shaft to release too early or too late. This will result in directional and timing issues.

Apart from quality issues, the reason for choosing a more expensive shaft over a cheapo is that the former is more likely to have tighter tolerences in flex, torsional strength, etc. The better shafts are also profiled towards certain types of golfers as mentioned above which makes it easier to fit specific golfers.

However, there are some reasonable good, low priced shafts around and it might be that you are fortunate enough that one of these shafts is better, or equally, suited to your swing than the more expensive options. A good clubfitter should be able to properly fit you for the correct shaft and usually give you a few shaft options of varying prices.

Mick

QUOTE: vman @ May 21 2007, 12:34 PM

Grumpy,

I don't think even Ben would suggest that the shaft has NO impact on launch angle and spin. It is just that the shaft has a minimal effect when compared with other factors such as clubhead loft and angle of attack.

I think what has been suggested in other threads is that, if you want a higher ball flight, look at a clubhead with greater loft rather than shaft selection.

Having said that, shaft profiling is still very important. All golfers load the shaft differently and it is important to select a shaft with the qualities best suited to each golfer. Put simply, golfers with quick transitions at the top and a fast start down will tend to place greater load on the butt section of the shaft and will generally require shafts with stiffer butt sections. While golfers with a strong, late release will tend to place greater load on the tip section of the shaft and will generally require shafts with stiffer, low torque tip sections.

An incorrectly fitted shaft will cause the shaft to release too early or too late. This will result in directional and timing issues.

Apart from quality issues, the reason for choosing a more expensive shaft over a cheapo is that the former is more likely to have tighter tolerences in flex, torsional strength, etc. The better shafts are also profiled towards certain types of golfers as mentioned above which makes it easier to fit specific golfers.

However, there are some reasonable good, low priced shafts around and it might be that you are fortunate enough that one of these shafts is better, or equally, suited to your swing than the more expensive options. A good clubfitter should be able to properly fit you for the correct shaft and usually give you a few shaft options of varying prices.

Mick

Great answer

Micks description is great..

This one comment is so very important and really sums up "pretty much" everything:

"An incorrectly fitted shaft will cause the shaft to release too early or too late. This will result in directional and timing issues."

Also, like Mick said,

"Apart from quality issues, the reason for choosing a more expensive shaft over a cheapo is that the former is more likely to have tighter tolerences in flex, torsional strength, etc. The better shafts are also profiled towards certain types of golfers as mentioned above which makes it easier to fit specific golfers.

However, there are some reasonable good, low priced shafts around and it might be that you are fortunate enough that one of these shafts is better, or equally, suited to your swing than the more expensive options."

There is an exception here...

Over the last few years, a lot of companies like SK Fiber, Integra, Mercury...etc have created fiber would shafts that are made from computer, and not hand rolled process which is not just dramatically cheaper to manufacture (computer vs salary employee), but cheaper to ship and store (standard shafts are sheet rolled which need to be laid flat and stores in a climate controlled environment, whereas fiber wound material is kept rolled up and more resistant to environmental conditions.

Secondly, because of the process, the hand rolled products will have a prominent spine whereas fiber wound shafts have a marginally, if not undetectable spine...which is contributory towards incredibly tight tolerances...a deflection differential of under 2 cpms is not uncommon...Mercury used to guarantee nothing over 1 cpm from stated flexc...and they were never wrong.

Then, on top of the ease of manufacturer, and tighter tolerances, the shafts due to storage and automation savings were substantially less in cost.

Fiber wound shafts can be purchased RETAIL for under $15 bucks and will display better tolerance control than hand rolled shafts at 10x's the cost.

So why don't more people use this process and more people buy it?

A couple reasons...people tend to equate quality to price...Which is (in my opinion) why Mercury closed their doors last year...had they raised their retail price to $35 a shaft, they would have made tons of $$$$...but instead, they sold them for under $10 and people looked elsewhere.

Also, in my opinion is even though their construction and accuracy to specs is better than most hand rolled companies, the "FEEL" by and large was not as good as the better shaft companies products.

Higher handicappers would not find this an issue...but lower and (I think) most mid-cappers consider feel when buying a shaft/s.

thanks boys - some good answers

QUOTE: Indacup @ May 22 2007, 03:39 AM

Micks description is great..

This one comment is so very important and really sums up "pretty much" everything:

Also, like Mick said,

There is an exception here...

Over the last few years, a lot of companies like SK Fiber, Integra, Mercury...etc have created fiber would shafts that are made from computer, and not hand rolled process which is not just dramatically cheaper to manufacture (computer vs salary employee), but cheaper to ship and store (standard shafts are sheet rolled which need to be laid flat and stores in a climate controlled environment, whereas fiber wound material is kept rolled up and more resistant to environmental conditions.

Secondly, because of the process, the hand rolled products will have a prominent spine whereas fiber wound shafts have a marginally, if not undetectable spine...which is contributory towards incredibly tight tolerances...a deflection differential of under 2 cpms is not uncommon...Mercury used to guarantee nothing over 1 cpm from stated flexc...and they were never wrong.

Then, on top of the ease of manufacturer, and tighter tolerances, the shafts due to storage and automation savings were substantially less in cost.

Fiber wound shafts can be purchased RETAIL for under $15 bucks and will display better tolerance control than hand rolled shafts at 10x's the cost.

So why don't more people use this process and more people buy it?

A couple reasons...people tend to equate quality to price...Which is (in my opinion) why Mercury closed their doors last year...had they raised their retail price to $35 a shaft, they would have made tons of $$$$...but instead, they sold them for under $10 and people looked elsewhere.

Also, in my opinion is even though their construction and accuracy to specs is better than most hand rolled companies, the "FEEL" by and large was not as good as the better shaft companies products.

Higher handicappers would not find this an issue...but lower and (I think) most mid-cappers consider feel when buying a shaft/s.

I just wanted to add that there are a couple of reasons that fibre wound shafts were slow to take off in the beginning. The major advantage of graphite shafts was their lighter weight and sheet wrapped shafts could be made much lighter and stiffer than even the best filament-wound shafts. Back then, the lightest filament wound shafts couldn't come close to a sheet wrapped shaft and weighed somewhere in between a sheet-wrapped shaft and a steel shaft. This has changed over the last few years with different resin technologies and Filament wound shafts are much closer in weight to a sheet wrapped shaft.

For most shafts, they do need a large proportion of the filaments running the length of the shaft to give it the actual stiffness. Carbon fibres are very stiff in only one plane. Filaments wrapped around the shaft add greatly to torsional stiffness but little end-to-end stiffness.
In fact, a shaft could be manufactured with ALL of the carbon fibre filaments running end to end and it would be the lightest and stiffest shaft you could make. The only problem is that after a couple of hits in a driver the torsional forces would split it. Actually, even slamming the butt of the club down into your bag too hard could split it!

Another reason is simply that the machinery required to do computer controlled filament wound shafts was VERY expensive and many of the original graphite shaft companies were actually quite small. In some their golf shaft department consisted of only a few staff. In others, a lot of the actual construction was outsourced and with so few specialist composite companies in the world and the golf market actually being quite small most didn't see any value in investing in expensive, specialised equipment. As time has passed and the market has grown this has obviously changed.

For those in the forum that do not visit the main part of the site head to the link below and read Tom Wishons article on shafts.

http://www.iseekgolf.com/fi...