Just starting a new topic here to stop other topics getting threadjacked. Lag Pressure is competing in the Classc Club Open later this month and this has inspired interest from some of us in buying some older sets. So this thread is for all things Classic/Retro/Vintage!

I’ll get us rolling – anyone know anything about these Wilson Plus III which i was thinking of picking up as they are local to me?

Any ideas on how best to research age or quality?

Thanks, AA

Ok I think I’m getting a tiny bit obsessed lol….!

Anyway I’m a pom but this has more of a local flavour. Anyone know anything about Chesterfield Golf Clubs? I have found some stamped Dyna Flow, Made in Australia, Kel Nagle British Open Champion.

As Kel Nagle won the Open in 1960 they must have been maufactured after that (obviously) but I don’t know anything about the brand. Can anyone tell me anything?

Cheers, AA

please send some reviews & results through of the comp.

it would be interesting to see how people play with older clubs.

I reckon I could play with hickory and score no better!

It will certainly force yo to load your club better!

Found an interesting on-line golf retailer on the weekend;

http://www.golf-list.com.au/

They sell both new and used clubs. The reason I mention it in this thread is they also have a few clubs listed that would be in the classic/retro/vintage classification. They have them in a collectibles section.

Cheers

Dave

Wouldnt it be great to see the top pros compete in a comp like this, imagine Tiger Ernie Vijay Sergio etc using wooden drivers and old brass blade putters… would be great to see and would tell us who has the most natural talent.

Caddyshack1,

Amen, it would really tell a lot to see how good, or not so good, they would be… It would be great if we could really compare one generation to another. Is all the high tech swing analysis stuff really doing any good? How would Tiger do compared to Nicklaus with the same gear on the same courses? We (or at least I) will never know.

I would speculate that Sergio might come out on top. He really has one of the last classic old school swings that I know would do well with the old gear. I really don’t think Tiger would do as well as people think.
If he had to putt on greens that were not as pure as he is used to, and with that driver swing of his that hit’s that right shot, I think he would be spending a lot of time off the fairway trying to hit mid irons out of the rough and trees that he now can’t go up and over, and stop the ball.

He has great touch, and a great competitor, he’d soon figure it all out, but I don’t think he would be wiping out Nicklaus’ records as easy as some might think.

AddingtonArnie,

Those Kel Nagles look great…
I would snatch those up in a hurry!

I’d love to have a go at those things…

I just picked up a set of 61 Turfrider dynas today.
They are the first true muscle backs.. all the weight is
right behind the sweetspot. Very low profile iron.

The dynas are a really interesting evolution. The 56 set I have is really
similar to the early 50’s MacGregor stuff, low profile, long looking blade. Tough to hit stuff.

The 59’s are one of the best balanced irons I have ever played. Maybe the most. Very heavy. I think each iron is a ounce more than any set I own. The swing weight in around E-5. I love using them if I haven’t played in a while. The heaviness feels really good. Mass times velocity = force. There is a great argument for hitting heavy irons. Irons are for accuracy not distance. Part of that accuracy is distance control. I find I don’t hit flyers as much with a heavier iron. My 71 MT spit soles gave me my best round out at Mare Island (65) but I have hit a few fliers with them. They are really light, and sw in at around C-8

John Morse who won the Australian Open is a good friend of mine
and he is a big believer in really heavy irons. He had his set at E-5.
He hated the club feeling light in his hands.

Back to the Dynas, the Turfriders added the big muscle back. I love the 1 iron from that set. I can see the back of the head when I set up to it. It’s the lowest profile 1 iron I have seen. It’s an amazing club and I like to keep it in my bag. I have used it often over the years.

The 66 Dynas are scaled back some in muscle back. The 69 Dyna bullet backs really set the tone for the a lot of the classic blade irons to come. I think of them as the first of the classic modern blade, along with the first Hogan Bounce soles. The famous “staff” irons that became almost a standard on tour in the late 70’s and 80’s are the direct child of those Bullet Backs.

The 71 button backs brought back a bit more muscle out toward the toe. Interesting that the button back was the iron that Armstrong hit on the moon. The Dyna really made history there!

Thanks Lag,

Picture of the faces of the Kel Nagles below. I’ll give them a whirl if the price stays sensible. Picture of the faces below:

Do you automatically reshaft when you get an old set like the 61 Turfrider dynas you mentioned? Or do you just play them and see how they feel. Do iron shafts degrade much over a long period?

Thanks,

AA

P.S What are your views on the influence on the evolution of modern putters? Any recommendations on some names to look out for?

great thread

i’ll put up pics of my recent acquisitions shortly

I hit the ball very hard with as much acceleration as I can possible muster. Regular shafts are too loose for me with the long irons.
I can hit regulars fine down to about a 6 iron, anything longer starts to feel pretty squirilish.

I play the old stuff not for nostalgia, but these are great clubs, very relevant and playable. I’m a good ball striker and I demand the weight to be behind the sweet spot not around the edges. I don’t hit it around the edges.

Steel shafts do not degrade over time unless they rust of course.

Steel is still the best shaft option for consistency, low torque and structural integrity. Steel has a lower frequency response and gives more reliable feel and is more pleasing to my ears than titanium.

My oldest two sets are 1935 Bobby Jones irons and 1940 Top Flite.
Those both have regular flex shafts and on those days I just play it.
The perforated leather grips are priceless, I would never change those things, and it is really good for my swing to play the softer shafts once in a while as if forces me to wait on it a bit longer. It’s a real day of discipline on those afternoons I take out one of those sets.

My home course was built in 1892 and it really is a tough track. Very tight and when the greens get fast it is absolutely frightening. There are three places on the course where if you are on the wrong side of the hole, you can easily put the ball of the green and it will roll 50 yards back down the fairway. There is only one five par, so birdies are earned not given away. My goal is to shoot in the 60’s with every one of my sets. I haven’t been able to do it yet with the Jones or Top Flite set as of yet. I did shoot 70 with the Jones a few weeks ago. They are so tough to hit. IF you miss it just slightly you lose 10 yards. When you pure it though, it’s the best feeling club I own. Really.

Putters are such a personal thing. Right now I am using a 60’s Bulls eye. It’s a soft brass, great for fast greens. I like really simple designs. I like my putter shafts on the firm side. I personally don’t seem to resonate with heel shafted putters nor offset putters. Just my thing I guess. I am a very good putter but I am not Padrig Harrington!

This will be a fun thead, I’ll get some pics up of some of my gear..!

Decisions decisions.

Great picture Guru! I’m not sure if I ever saw any detailed thoughts from you on how you found playing with vintage clubs when you played with Lag at Mare Island. If you didn’t post previously and you want to share that would be great…!

Lag – where did you get those tube things – get the feeling I am going to need some soon!

Cheers, AA

Hardware store, PVC pipe. Or Post Office and pay a fortune for something that is similar:)

AA: There were a few posts scattered around since I got back. Basically we had a blast on the day. Sun was up and it was not too windy either for the first time around Mare which is a tight track. I borrowed the 1930s Booby Jones irons, including a 2i which got a whack on the par 5s. Seriously I should have hit the 3w but hey, the feeling of hitting the old 2i was worth the entire round the world trip.

I am only a little guy so the stiff shafts were a little more effort to wield that I would prefer and I was awfully glad it was not a cold day on a couple of occasions. On the other hand I hit them WAY better than some super new clubs over in Georgia that I borrowed to play at Cuscowilla that were too soft.

The funny thing about all this is that I suggest to swing clients to practice with a blade to know what just happened more clearly. So going out with the vintage clubs actually helped me think about my game a little on the day.

I love the idea of having a club comp once a month to bring out the old gear. Play off the middle tees and blow the engine clean on the old gear. I mean who cares what you score vs playing off the same tees with new gear, that is not the point (though I would bet many would see zero difference).

Mare Island reminded me of the true love of the sport of golf. Great company, cool equipment and there are few places that can give you a vista like on top of a hill looking down at a golf course.

Thanks Guru,

Great idea about the monthly comp with the old gear. I’m thinking I might see if I can get a one-off comp going at my place for starters. Its an old Harry Colt course about the same length as Mare Island so would be a good venue for it. Might feel differently after tomorrow when take the Mizuno TP-11s out for their first spin! Maybe not vintage but they look pretty “classic” to me! I’m kidding myself that I am easing myself in gently before the 1960’s Chesterfield “Kel Nagles” arrive.

Could be a sobering but enlightening experience!

Cheers, AA

Those Mizuno’s look gorgeous!

I must look out for a set of those, which do you think is Mizuno’s best blade?

I’m really inspired by what Guru suggested and am planning a letter to the committee to suggest:

A tournament in the summer (well 18 holes) where clubs must be pre-1980. Woods must be exactly that. Hopefully we can run it on a Sunday before a bank holiday Monday (so early May is the first choice date) and follow it up with some food and lots of drink. I may even try to get sponsorship up for a trophy. What name do you suggest? “The Vintage Cup”, “Retro Trophy”.

I think this has legs and lots of merit.

I’ve found it hard to find pre-80’s clubs. The closest I’ve got are Wilson FG-17s which are circa ‘82 or ‘83. They’re a muscle-back.

Those Mizuno’s look gorgeous!

I must look out for a set of those, which do you think is Mizuno’s best blade?

I’m really inspired by what Guru suggested and am planning a letter to the committee to suggest:

A tournament in the summer (well 18 holes) where clubs must be pre-1980. Woods must be exactly that. Hopefully we can run it on a Sunday before a bank holiday Monday (so early May is the first choice date) and follow it up with some food and lots of drink. I may even try to get sponsorship up for a trophy. What name do you suggest? “The Vintage Cup”, “Retro Trophy”.

I think this has legs and lots of merit.

Its better to stay silent and look a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

Mark Twain

No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars, or sailed to an unchartered land,or opened a new heaven to the human spirit

Helen Keller

Hi Styles – not sure on the Mizuno blade front – Years ago I did like the pro originals but I have been playing the MX-20’s for the last 5 years and before that I had some Hogan Apex semi cavities. I’ll let you know how I get on with the TP-11’s – £70 including p&p on ebay uk!

Good luck with the committee re: the Vintage Cup – sounds great fun!

Cheers, AA

I’ve found it hard to find pre-80’s clubs. The closest I’ve got are Wilson FG-17s which are circa ‘82 or ‘83. They’re a muscle-back.

“There is no truth. There is only perception.” – Gustave Flaubert

I think it depends where your based. I’m in the UK and there seems to be a big gap between the hickory shafted stuff pre-1930 and late 80’s / early 90’s clubs on ebay. By contrast in you go to ebay.com in the US its awash with clubs from 1950 onwards that seem to sell for very reasonable prices. But then then you have the delivery costs and import duty to deal with.

The other explanation is that Styles has cleaned the market of anything worthwhile over here.. lol!

lol, no I’ve 3 sets now and no plans to buy anymore for a bit

Only 3?
We don’t have that many golf retailers here in Perth, Australia. THe the pawn shops don’t seem to want to take them. I wonder where these clubs went?

I’ve found it hard to find pre-80’s clubs. The closest I’ve got are Wilson FG-17s which are circa ‘82 or ‘83. They’re a muscle-back.

“There is no truth. There is only perception.” – Gustave Flaubert

I think it depends where your based…

The other explanation is that Styles has cleaned the market of anything worthwhile over here.. lol!

... and the Australian dollar.

A mate of mine has my 1980s Status hand forged blades. I used to hit a 2 iron blade when I was 15! Now I don’t even carry a cavity back 3 iron! Are the Status clubs of historic interest in the history of Aussie clubs?

I am quite sure it will happen, there will at some point be a backlashing against all the modern gear, if it’s not happening already. As I have come back to the game after being gone for 14 years, slowly I have been finding old friends (and rivals!) from the past and my sentiments are supported by many. In many ways I am sooooooo glad I never hit the new gear, as I imagine it is tough for people to feel as if they are going backwards. What I think is happening is that the golf swing itself is going backwards…as the equipment goes forwards.

I have been finding that a lot of the guys that were good with persimmon, won’t go back because the reality of the situation is that the new gear has made their swings so sloppy, they know they can’t “easily” go back. Now they are using it as a crutch.

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

There are so many examples of technology going off the hook, and it has not been all good.

I don’t see golf as any different than martial arts. You are using the forces in your body to strike something. The beauty of these arts is that you learn about the body, about connection, power, concentration, focus, acceleration, body centers, meditation and so forth.

What’s a greater feat? A master Kung Fu belt who breaks a pile of bricks with his bare hands? Or someone else doing it with the help of a sledge hammer?

That’s really how I feel when I play with people using the new gear.
They watch me rip a persimmon driver 265 yards on a rope, and then I see their terribly flawed swing, hit the same shot because of what they have in their hand, not in their body.

I remember the day I realized that golf was going to change with the new stuff, I’ve said this before, at PGA Q playing with Todd Hamilton
and his new high tech driver that he picked up 30 yards with. I new right then I was going to be forced into having to use this terribly unsightly hollowed out chunky titanium monstrosity! I don’t think I completely thought it through, and how negative this would be for golf, at least from the tour perspective. I’m really glad I got out when I did. Right at the end of the persimmon age. I’m proud to have been one of the last guys to win a world pro event with persimmon and tiny blades.

The top amateur player at my club comes out with me on occasion
and if we both hit one well I still knock it by him 10 to 15 yards. The other day he asked to hit my persimmon, and he hit a couple balls with it off the long 16th four par, and the last one he was really happy with… I hit one drive and drove it 40 yards by his best of three. It really made me realize how long I am off the tee. I probably hit that drive 280 with a 43 inch persimmon.

This old gear we are talking about can be your greatest teacher.
It gives you more feel… but in return asks much more of you.
I hope the knowledge of the real game doesn’t sink into the sands of time like the lost city of Atlantis. It would be better to see it survive somehow like the great pyramids of Egypt.

The balata ball is gone, no machines to make them. Even golf shoes are changing the swing. No spikes means you can’t use your feet like the old days, and this is not good for the swing either. Hogan had an extra spike for a reason. The sould of metal cleats is gone. The sound of the crack of persimmon. That deep baritone sound, gone for most but us here. The classic old courses, are heading to the grave soon as far as competitions.

I better go to bed before I cry a bucket of tears! lol