Not an expert my any measure, but what will golf clubs do to lure new members? I dont have $2000 sitting around to join and pay – but surely these clubs would welcome for example a $500 membership to play the club once a month, or share this across 12 courses to at least get traffic through?

Won’t happen in a lot of cases, the real problem with most golfers is they are just plain selfish. There isn’t any such thing as a community unless they see something in it for themselves. Sort of a contradiction in terms really.

This is why golf is in decline all over the world. Its selfish in the extreme. To do something like this would mean considering all golfers everywhere to be equal, a part of the whole. And we can’t have that, might be too close to communism or something similar. It’s why GA are so useless, “can’t interfere with the clubs, that just wouldn’t do”.

Won’t say much more, no doubt I’ll be howled down again, by those same selfish people that seem to think the way to get golf back to it’s previous highs is to keep doing the same isolationist things we’ve been doing for the last couple of centuries…. ahhh tradition, nothing like growing old and dying.

Won’t happen in a lot of cases, the real problem with most golfers is they are just plain selfish. There isn’t any such thing as a community unless they see something in it for themselves. Sort of a contradiction in terms really.

This is why golf is in decline all over the world. Its selfish in the extreme. To do something like this would mean considering all golfers everywhere to be equal, a part of the whole. And we can’t have that, might be too close to communism or something similar. It’s why GA are so useless, “can’t interfere with the clubs, that just wouldn’t do”.

Won’t say much more, no doubt I’ll be howled down again, by those same selfish people that seem to think the way to get golf back to it’s previous highs is to keep doing the same isolationist things we’ve been doing for the last couple of centuries…. ahhh tradition, nothing like growing old and dying.

Not an expert my any measure, but what will golf clubs do to lure new members? I dont have $2000 sitting around to join and pay – but surely these clubs would welcome for example a $500 membership to play the club once a month, or share this across 12 courses to at least get traffic through?

Plenty of 5th tier clubs and public courses to join around the outskirts. You just need to have alook and find something that fits into your budget. Remember that you only get what you pay for in life. If you set your sights higher now, you will enjoy the local private club for many years to come.
Jon…

Being a non-victorian ( there are only two types of australians – victorians and non-victorians) I have always wondered how Melbourne supports so many expensive clubs in the sandbelt. There must be what… 12-15 of them in that area with fees in the “high range” and probably joining fees to match.

My guess has always been that they have a lot of paid up members from all over australia who hardly ever go there but are financial enough to join just so they can say “i’m a member at royal melbourne”. Would that be right.

I remember playing with a wealthy optometrist from melbourne once ( lovely bloke, don’t get me wrong) who was a member of Huntingdale, Kingston heath, Cranbourne and Arundel Hills on the Gold coast. Couldn’t really understand the reason but i guess if you have the cash and love golf, why the hell not.

Have to agree and disagree with you Cliff … let me explain.

I’ve been a member of a few local clubs and frustrated that none of them really suited my needs. It then dawned on me I don’t need to be a member of a golf club I just need my own private course … this doesn’t seem selfish (does it ?)

In years gone by I was playing in the comp every Saturday, practising mid week, spending time at the club, on the pennant team and alike. Alas marriage, kids, work and other life focuses mean today I just want a club/course I can turn up, play and move on – very sad but true. Not surprisingly I used to play much more consistent golf than I do these days too !!

Ultimately clubs do definitely need an inner community to survive and grow, people to serve on the committee and to ensure the needs of its members are being addressed. Equally clubs must recognise the changing needs of those golfers who sit on the periphery and look for ways to better service their needs … be it through innovative membership plans or otherwise.

Failure to do so will see ever more traditional members clubs squeezed by the new model pay-as-you-play memberships like Riverside Oaks here in Sydney.

This is why golf is in decline all over the world.

Is this really true ??

The main problem for golf clubs, a gross generalisation I know, is that is they are incredibly expensive to build and run.
Almost all new golf clubs are only built by developers as part of a real estate development and the can’t get out of the golf club fast enough when the land development is over.
No one wants to own a golf club, other than the courses owned and run by members and most of them struggle financially unless they charge huge membership fees. Many of the larger courses would spend upwards of $1 million a year on fertiliser & chemicals alone.
State & Federal Governments and Local Govt don’t want to know about golf because it does not provide them with either of the two things they want votes or money. GA does its best but in the end GA is only a mouthpiece for the State Associations.
The reality is that most golf city golf clubs need over 50,000 paid rounds per year to cover costs and that is damn difficult to achieve.
Whats the answer ??, a hell of a lot of people are trying their hardest to find it / them.
Higher handicaps, shorter competitions, more women, more kids, dare I say it, clubs & balls that make the game easier for mere mortals to play, the list goes on.
In the end its a numbers game for every club. If everyone that plays and loves the game got only one non golfer friend to play and helped them to stick with it through their learning process we would be way better off.

I think golf clubs are facing a bit of a catch-22 situation. Members prefer higher quality courses and fewer other players on the course. Clubs need more players on the course to enable them to spend more on the upkeep. Members want exclusive access, more comps and a way to keep out the riff-raff. Clubs are needing to broaden the horizons and bring in new players to meet the financial needs.

I’d hate to be the president of a struggling club. You couldn’t win.

One group that doesn’t get a great deal of representation in these type of discussions is the social golfers. I’m one. Not a member anywhere because the cost is prohibitive, and I don’t like comps. I’d probably spend more money on golf, but the biggest obstacle is (and this will open a can of worms) competition golf.

I don’t have any interest in playing competition golf, but the courses I want to play are all closed for effectively all day every Saturday. This limits my opportunities greatly, and the club misses out on my money. In my younger days I was a member at a course in Ballarat that closed the course regularly for members-only comps, and in many cases I couldn’t get on for a hit – even on Sundays. In the end I chucked in my membership because I was a poor student and got sick of turning up with mates and clubs and seeing the “course closed” sign out the front.

That said, the prevailing view is that clubs need to run comps to get people to play. I wonder why. Would people play less golf if they weren’t playing for the honour and glory of a $20 meat pack? Does handicap fraud, burglars at the monthly medal day, over-zealous buggers playing for sheep-stations in C grade and slow play put other golfers off, or is it just me?

Could a club increase participation, member numbers and make more money by having LESS competitions and providing more access to the course for members, and perhaps others? I don’t know. I’m just throwing it out there in the selfish hope that somebody will try it. :)

The problem for the club is pretty basic. Other than the no member resort courses, clubs need members to pay the annual fees that keep many clubs afloat. The members in return want something in return for their annual fees – exclusivity in Sat comps.

The problem for clubs in offering all the ideas that some green fee players would like is that some are just not economically viable.

If four people accept a $500 yearly membership to play a limited number of times per year, the club only has to have one $2000 full member switch and they haven’t made any money from the deal.

On the other hand, if a club has 500 members paying $2000, and they put up the fees to $2500, they can lose up to 100 members and still have the same gross revenue, with fewer members to service and lower administration costs.

So it’s not as simple as just offering discounts and cheaper, more flexible offers.

IMHO, there are now too many clubs trying to offer a full-service model on a “championship” course. They have to charge more than most people are willing to pay to cover costs.

• an excellent and well-designed 5600m course, not a monster.
• close to enough population
• good conditioning but built for most club, amateur and social golfers—one that didn’t overly tax them for length, shot difficulty or dozens of lost balls.
• a basic golf shop and a simple but warm and comfortable cafe
• no other service costs—no bag drops, valets, GPS carts and on-course drinks.

then it might have a chance of making money.

PS: You might be amazed at what sort of of budget some country golf courses exist on. A total budget of less than $200-300,000 is not uncommon.

Another point to take into consideration.
Golf Australia claims that membership numbers are diminishing due mainly to social pressures ,Yet developers are still building more Golf courses . Is there any logic there.

we here in Oz should appreciate the price we are paying (in general) for a game, and i am grateful (of course i wont want it to increase out of sync with the inflation rate)

becos if you compare the prices in the US, parts of UK ? and parts of Asia (eg Japan, Singapore), we certainly have it pretty good here….

The logic for the developers is the attraction of selling the development within a golf course environment. Then, when the development is complete, or near as, the developer bolts.
Look at the potential s…fight if the Surfers Paradise / Glades deal goes through. Over 1,000 SP members going to the Glades, which costs an absolute fortune to run, and current Glades residents not wanting them. Lawyers set to make heaps.
SP disappears into another development and the SP members in 5 years time wondering what the hell they got themselves into when they see the cost of running a resort style course on a day to day basis.
The country courses are much cheaper to run, I agree, but they get heaps of support from the local community, lots of voluntary work, and less pressure or need for their land ( for now anyway ).
The basic problem for the clubs is getting more players out of peak hours and that ain’t easy.

we here in Oz should appreciate the price we are paying (in general) for a game, and i am grateful (of course i wont want it to increase out of sync with the inflation rate)

becos if you compare the prices in the US, parts of UK ? and parts of Asia (eg Japan, Singapore), we certainly have it pretty good here….

If Tiger plays Lefty will he be that good ?
You sure Square is Good ? Don’t Think So !
Good Golf is Fun plus the Great Outdoors…
In the Bag: Clubs and Balls. My Handicap is Bad Golf.

My understanding is Japan is now struggling, golf courses are now cheaper than they ever were, special offers that are actually cheaper than Australia (talked to a pro that played extensivly over there last year)

The US is out of control and courses are closing every where. They have suddenly realised that pricing is way over the top, and there are too many courses period.

As for the UK, well that’s just a small place, large population and small place makes for a good market, as it used to in Japan until money became an issue for the Japanese.

IMO we aren’t that lucky in Australia, we are over supplied with golf courses compared to Population and the arrogance of a lot of those courses will kill them, this is already happening. How can anyone justify the existence of 50 golf courses on the Gold Coast and most of them charge around 75 dollars plus to play? The camels back has to break here sometime….

The answer I get is most of them are holiday resorts, well seen the headlines regarding the flights coming into Qld lately? Where does that leave the holiday resorts now, and in the near future….

I can see some cheap golf coming my way on the GC soon…and some cheap land.

thanks for your updating me :)
good posts Cliff….

Won’t happen in a lot of cases, the real problem with most golfers is they are just plain selfish. There isn’t any such thing as a community unless they see something in it for themselves. Sort of a contradiction in terms really.

This is why golf is in decline all over the world. Its selfish in the extreme. To do something like this would mean considering all golfers everywhere to be equal, a part of the whole. And we can’t have that, might be too close to communism or something similar. It’s why GA are so useless, “can’t interfere with the clubs, that just wouldn’t do”.

Won’t say much more, no doubt I’ll be howled down again, by those same selfish people that seem to think the way to get golf back to it’s previous highs is to keep doing the same isolationist things we’ve been doing for the last couple of centuries…. ahhh tradition, nothing like growing old and dying.

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

No doubt. I see it every time I golf, be it as private or public courses. There are always a clik of members who think they are better then you, the common man, who comes to play the club once or twice. It is probably my biggest pet peeve in all of golf.

May be the answer is community and player support, look at some of the absolutely great 9 hole coureses in Nth Qld such as Millaa Millaa and Cardwell, fantastic courses and $10 a round. No carts or drinks on course but there again most people go there to play golf..funny eh? And every weekend members come and get their hands dirty to maintain THEIR course, which they generously share with non members.

Otherwise well, its just a business like anything else..trying paying the membrship and green fees that we pay here in Asia and you will realise just how fortunate you are.

There are always a clik of members who think they are better then you,

The country courses are much cheaper to run, I agree, but they get heaps of support from the local community, lots of voluntary work, and less pressure or need for their land ( for now anyway ).
The basic problem for the clubs is getting more players out of peak hours and that ain’t easy.

But I think the problem for a lot of courses, even the best sandbelt ones in Melbourne, is that they started out on a “community” model years ago and have switched to “full service”, with large administration and green fee staff. The top echelon clubs are surviving on this model, but the ones further down the list are having trouble with the costs of full service. If they got some “community” back into the clubs, and managed to convince members that not everything needs to be provided and paid for, they might be better off.

Country clubs have maintained the “community model” to a large extent, which is why they’re able to (albeit just) survive on the smell of an oily rag. No one in a country club expects to have anything other than a basic service, often without even a pro shop. They just want to go out and golf on a pleasant course and have a snack afterwards.

My theory is that what matters most is purely course quality in relation to cost. For fully-subscribed elite clubs, this is not an issue. For others, clubs that can keep their cost base down but course quality up when the going gets tough are more likely to survive.

There are always a clik of members who think they are better then you,

not only in golf….

i would stick my neck out and say it can even happen in a church environment !!
in other words thats the way life goes….. unfortunately

If Tiger plays Lefty will he be that good ?
You sure Square is Good ? Don’t Think So !
Good Golf is Fun plus the Great Outdoors…
In the Bag: Clubs and Balls. My Handicap is Bad Golf.

My problem with it is if I pay, say, $50 for a round, I should be treated the same as every other paying player, member or not. Obviously, members have other benefits at the clubhouse (showers, lockers, etc.), but we won’t get into that. When I have course members telling me I have less rights then them while playing on the course, that is where I do have a problem. I’ve had it happen before, and it certainly makes me think twice as to if I want to play the course again.

Ok i understand what u mean
it’s a Piss i must admit
and i would hate this too….

Along the lines of a number of the comments so far, I think that the elite clubs will survive with the current membership structure – but i dont think that this is line with today’s requirements of the golfing public.

I would prefer a lower annual subscription fee along with a higher cost to play per round to play a better course, rather than the reverse.

For example, I’ve played with people who play on average the equivilent of 4 rounds per week for 50 weeks of the year; i.e. 200 rounds per annum. Now this person pays the same as me who only averages 50 rounds per year. Based on this formula, player one is paying a quarter of the cost per round to me.

Do people think that this fair? Clearly some poeple live closer to the course and have more spare time, but assuming that the membership category is the same, player 1 is generating more wear and tear on the course.

It would be interesting to do the numbers across a year and record every round of golf on a course to see if a club would be better or worse off financially, community wise and attract new members.

I think a big issue for alot of people is up front fees. 1-2K up front per year is a big hit for most people, clubs could attract more people by offering pay by the month memberships, simmilar to gym memberships and other sporting memberships. $100 a month would be alot easier for most to handle than a lump sum up front.

I know there is a few 3rd parties out there such as Pay as you Golf that offer monthly payments, but they are more a finance lender who pay the club the up front fees then charge you (plus interest) monthly installments to repay the loan. I’d much rather pay it directly to the club than give it to a middle man.

I’d much rather pay it directly to the club than give it to a middle man.

But the club would obviously prefer you paid it to the middle man.

For the club, the hassle of chasing late fees every month would drive the front office nutty. For them it’s a no brainer – collect the fees once, give out the bag tags, let individuals work out whether they want to borrow the money for a fee.