In the comp today a fairway Nazi who was a full 3 groups behind us just couldn’t resist having a dig:-”you know you’ve lost a hole” after watching us putt out from an adjacent fairway. This despite the fact that we in no way had lost a hole or even half a hole or even a tiny fraction of a hole on the group in front – in fact we had to wait for them to clear the fairway on the next, the same as we had to for the whole round.

The only explanation I could come up with for his irrational behaviour was my reading of my birdie putt from a couple of different angles. Either that or I looked under 45 years old.

If people can’t accept a 4 hour round on a Saturday 4 ball comp then they should stay home and let the rest of us have fun playing golf. I really don’t understand the difference between an extra half hour or so for 18 holes, a round of golf takes time and you’re that pushed for it then play something else.

Golf is one of the world greatest games but I wish it wasn’t played by some of the world greatest arseholes.

What did he mean by lost a hole? Is it because he thought you would take too long so you would have to skip the next hole to keep the traffic moving?

Andrew

Sarg, he mean’t that chrisal and his group were more than a hole behind the group in front.

Whilst I hate slow play, I also hate the naziis. The old saying that you should be behind the group in front, not in front of the group behind is solid advice.

One thing I will say is that it always tends to be the same groups that are slow. In our club there is a fourball that loses one and a half to two holes every single week. They never, ever let a group through either. The group in question is full of ‘older’ guys in their 60s and 70s (apologies to users if I am being ageist) who are not fit and run out of steam.

Chrisal I fully expect a competition round to take 4 1/2 hours and don’t mind that, but it is extremely frustrating to be stuck behind people who are not holding their place on the course.

Sarg, he mean’t that chrisal and his group were more than a hole behind the group in front.

Whilst I hate slow play, I also hate the naziis. The old saying that you should be behind the group in front, not in front of the group behind is solid advice.

One thing I will say is that it always tends to be the same groups that are slow. In our club there is a fourball that loses one and a half to two holes every single week. They never, ever let a group through either. The group in question is full of ‘older’ guys in their 60s and 70s (apologies to users if I am being ageist) who are not fit and run out of steam.

Chrisal I fully expect a competition round to take 4 1/2 hours and don’t mind that, but it is extremely frustrating to be stuck behind people who are not holding their place on the course.

Back in the “good old days” when I was still teaching for PGA, I also had training sessions around the country for course marshals, with a heavy emphasis on “pace of play.”

The problem lies in understanding the default nature of the problem first and then doing something to fix the default. In style language, of the four behavior styles, two are by nature (default) fast paced and two are slow. The rest of that is that the fast paced only make up 30% of the population, though at the time the PGA showed about 80% members of the slower paced two styles – Craftsman and Analyzer- (which is a huge difference – more than one would think – since the PGA only numbered about 26,000 total, and 80% represents a whopping big number in that total).

So the default, without training, has been a consistent application of slow pace, reinforced by example, and that is only ever threatened by the fewer fast paced folks who scream in opposition to the slow. So clubs began training programs and well placed promotionals that would help people move faster (Some clubs provided orientation sessions to new members with that included). Some even had well enough trained starters to be good at putting the faster paced players out first, which set a better pace. But it still boils down to sound training.

I know this is not what this thread is really about, but I continue to believe it to be important, since the % factors in behavior styles have not changed since way before my lifetime. So “slow” will likely continue to be the default until we change it.

BTW, Bobby Jones used to refer to “any 3 hour round” which he clearly took to be the standard. But then he was of the 30% fast paced group.

Next time someone says that, tell them to go piss into the wind and keep playing.

If your more than a hole behind, hurry up, if your not (as you were not), tell them to get stuffed.

Agreed

Having done a fair bit of marshalling I can see both sides of this arguement. first off Styles Quote is correct You should always attempt to keep up with the group in front . secondly if you drop behind try to catch up again. there are several little hints that will help you do that. Leave bags & buggies on the next tee side of the green your putting out on. player with the honour ,tee off & then mark card.&one of the worst problems is players who stand & watch thier playing partners play & then stand over thier ball & start thinking about what shot they,re going to play. This could have been done while playing partners where playing thier shots.
Thirdly, If you lose a ball & are likely to take time finding it or need to go back to hit another shot, call through the group behind.
most fourballs will play 18 holes in 4 hours or less. Any groups that take more than 4.5 hours,unless they are held up should look at ways they can speed up play. remember, the speed you play affects every group on the course behind you.

I know (strictly speaking) you shouldn’t do this in Sat comps but a great way to speed up is to play “Ready golf” – if you are at your ball and you are ready then hit (ie ignore the honour) for a few holes – you will catch the group in front in no time. Even on the greens – putt when ready.
Tell the old fart to piss off if he’s rude and wrong.
I am so glad the old boys at my club remind you to hurry up with a sense of humour ! And in general they are right – they have been doing this for longer than me and they know how to play fast.
All it takes is awareness and the low marker in the group should keep things ticking along – eg just a small comment like “ok guys we need to shuffle along after looking for those balls” should get the job done.

Pom and SJCG input make very good practical sense and should be followed, I think.

Some things:
1. Single-ball plays faster than 2, who plays faster than 3 and so on so forth…in general
so if you are a 1 or 2-ball behind a 3 or 4-ball expect the pace to be slower by nature by default, unless the 3/4-ball lets you pass.

2. Missing ball rule entitles a player a Max of 5 min of search and technically you cannot dispute that. but what you may do is that once a shot is obviously wayward, double your pace to that area and start the search asap…give 5 and declare lost as per rule and play a penalty.

3. Hackers/beginners are naturally slower than seasoned players.
So these folks should be ‘assessed’ by the marshal or starter at tee off and told the proper etiquette of playing pace. If they observe themselves to be unduly slow (eg spraying all over the shop and looking for missing balls), exercise the play thru ettiquette generously, this is BASIC Manners on the course that every tom dick harry should by default apply otherwise play go another game like cybergolf. Golf is like Life and being self regulatory, insightful and considerate is one of playing the game proper strong features.
and If you (as a beginner) are not ready to play the course yet by a long shot of the imgination, you shouldn’t (and work things out off the course first) and if you really need to practise your new honed skills on the course, please play at off-peak times and apply sound course etiquette generously, other players will appraciate this tremendously…otherwise you’ll experience unlimited shouts of ‘FORE’ from behind and believe me this is no fun and stressful in it of itself.

4. Playing this game you really dont have to resort to being rude, nasty or antagonistic (ie being nazis), it’s just not in the nature of this beautiful game and if you act that way, again go play cybergolf. The World has too much violence already and the golf course should be the antithesis of this in all areas.

Having done a fair bit of marshalling I can see both sides of this arguement. first off Styles Quote is correct You should always attempt to keep up with the group in front . secondly if you drop behind try to catch up again. there are several little hints that will help you do that. Leave bags & buggies on the next tee side of the green your putting out on. player with the honour ,tee off & then mark card.&one of the worst problems is players who stand & watch thier playing partners play & then stand over thier ball & start thinking about what shot they,re going to play. This could have been done while playing partners where playing thier shots.
Thirdly, If you lose a ball & are likely to take time finding it or need to go back to hit another shot, call through the group behind.
most fourballs will play 18 holes in 4 hours or less. Any groups that take more than 4.5 hours,unless they are held up should look at ways they can speed up play. remember, the speed you play affects every group on the course behind you.

Those hints should be adopted regardless, and SJGC, there is no problem in my mind by hiiting out of order if required to speed up a bit.

There is nothing worse than sitting behind a group that has no idea they are holding a feild up because they are dicking around.

Nor (In Chrysils case) is it comforting to be blamed for holding a feild up.

There have been heaps of times that I’ve been going to give a hurry up to people, and (luckily) found that it is not them holding up a little later. This could also be the case with you Chrysil. It may be a case of mistaken identity.

It really is frustrating to be held up – not if there is a lost ball, moreso if the slow play continues over 5 + holes for no apparent reason.

he’s probably a council worker in real life & is used to putting on a uniform & suddenly getting some power…..just forgot he was not at his day job.

My club a few years ago logged your tee off time and stamped your card on completion. these stats would surely identify where a back log occured. 1 slow round got you a warning plus counciling, 2nd warning and you get to play with a member of the committee, no one ever got a third warning.

And if your playing a public course on a busy time then you just have to remember your out having a good time, not at home mowing the lawns. I hate a 5 hour round, but when I go to the local council course at 2pm on a sunday you get what you get. just chill out and enjoy the walk, take a rules book and brush up, take a brush and clean your clubs, take some tweezers and do you nasal hairs, but getting upset with the beginners in front isnt their fault, sunday arvo is their time on the course, not yours. if you want a 4 hour round, stick to your saturday competition and maybe even join the committee and take a stance against slow play.
but its a fun game, just chill

AJ

I understand the principle of calling groups through if you are delayed looking for a lost ball, or have otherwise lost all touch with the group ahead. The group that go through (especially if smaller in number) will certainly appreciate the chance to play with clear ground ahead of them.

But does it actually speed up play for anyone else behind you on the course? Letting a group through seems to involve a bit of dicking around and waiting for them to get out of range, etc. There is also no guarantee that that group you let through will play any faster, i.e. you will end up waiting for them, and the gap between groups ahead won’t actually change. Sometimes being asked to play through makes players flustered.

My impression is that the best response to a delay is to double your efforts to speed up – split up and get to your own ball ASAP, play out of turn if someone else is unready to hit, and be willing to spend less time deliberating over your shots.

Our course explictly recommends “Ready Golf” during stroke play evetns – anyone ready to hit should do so when safe. This includes players not having the honour on the tee, if they are shorter hitters than the player with the honour.

Ready Golf is the best thing ever – unless you are playing in the club champs – then get to your own ball and hit it – worry about everyone else second.

It really annoys me to watch 4 blokes walking down the middle of the fairway chatting – then watching the first bloke hit , then moving on and all watching the second bloke and so on and so forth.

I still watch every shot by everyone in the group and know pretty much how many any one else in the group has had at any given time – and there’s always time for a chat on and around the tee’s and greens.

If someone is deep in the bush though – i will pretty much walk to their ball first – look around and then move on.

A lot of clubs are promoting “Ready Golf” these days – just a lot of players aren’t warming to the concept very quickly

Ready Golf is the best thing ever – unless you are playing in the club champs – then get to your own ball and hit it – worry about everyone else second.

It really annoys me to watch 4 blokes walking down the middle of the fairway chatting – then watching the first bloke hit , then moving on and all watching the second bloke and so on and so forth.

I still watch every shot by everyone in the group and know pretty much how many any one else in the group has had at any given time – and there’s always time for a chat on and around the tee’s and greens.

If someone is deep in the bush though – i will pretty much walk to their ball first – look around and then move on.

A lot of clubs are promoting “Ready Golf” these days – just a lot of players aren’t warming to the concept very quickly

The Cut Golf Club
Mandurah W.A.

Bring plently of balls – you’ll need them !!

Whats wrong with having a social round among friends? Everyone these days is “rush rush rush, gotta get this 18 done as fast as I can!” like they are on meth.

Guess Social golf is fine, If you stick to the proper etiquette and cognizant you are not the wart that is holding up play.

Again off Peak hours are fine for social golf if you want to indulge abit ?

Ready Golf is a neat concept and can be incorporated into the usualy social golf too, why not ?

Sorry – but i am referring more to competition golf.

A social 9 holes on a tuesday with your mates is different but you should still keep up or get out of the way.

Hey if I’m paying to go have a social round with my friends, we are going out any time the course lets us. Why should others have to cater to you so you can get your 18 done in 3 hours. I’d hope 18 takes 4 or 5 hours on a weekend! Afterall, we are supposed to relax then, aren’t we?

Yes but remember everybody on the course is there to enjoy themselves & waiting on every tee watching some dope in the group ahead of you who thinks ettiquette is a foriegn language that only applies to everybody else, is not enjoyable .plus! Most players play better golf when they don,t have to wait around before everyshot & this is probably the main reason for people getting upset about slow play.Racinfarmer, most of these posters are talking about competition rounds. not social players outside comp times.

Racinfarmer, most of these posters are talking about competition rounds. not social players outside comp times.

I realize that, but many of them are probably the same people who treat every round as a competition round and think they own the course. Most of the time, we play with the pace of play, but we also take our time. Strangely enough, we have had people complain when we wait for people to get 300+ yards off the tee before we hit. I have told more then one person that if they don’t like it, we’ll gladly leave if they wish to pay for our round. No one has taken me up on my offer.

Remember you get good & bad in every walk of life. I,m just talking from the point of vew of a c Club Captain who has had to deal with slow play quite often. It is not easy to tell someone that they are playing too slowly without upsetting them. Very few players accept the fact that they are slow,& in most clubs members usually know who the worst slow players are. Slow play is the biggest problem in club golf & causes more arguements than anything else.

Hey if I’m paying to go have a social round with my friends, we are going out any time the course lets us. Why should others have to cater to you so you can get your 18 done in 3 hours. I’d hope 18 takes 4 or 5 hours on a weekend! Afterall, we are supposed to relax then, aren’t we?

Personally, I have never heard anyone grouching about a 4 hour round. It’s when it stretches past 4 1/2 that people start getting annoyed. Basically you end up spending a lot of time leaning on your sticks wondering when the group in front of you are going to get off the green. A certain amount of relaxed strolling and banter is good, but waiting a long time on almost every full shot is just plain irritating. (Slow play from others is no excuse for belligerence though.)

4 hours for a round is a rule of thumb that strikes a balance between having to rush your shots, and having to take a book to keep yourself occupied. 4 hours is hardly rushing it.

Once you take into account driving to the course and back, warming up prior, having a few beers after, it can easily be a six hour activity – time well spent, but I don’t want to spend any longer than that on the course. Very slow players take up valuable drinking time.

HERE ! HERE!!

Muntz and Pom Makes plenty of sense here.

I am w Muntz here, 4 to 4.5 hours for 18 is fine, anything more without sound reasons becomes an obvious drag especially for a 2-ball flight.

Besides slow play destroys the game’s momentum and turns an enjoyable round into a drag.