I have a moral dilemma.

I know a golfer that still has a nonconforming driver (hasn’t played this year yet). Now this driver is about 10 years old and is probably more of a hinderance than a help but rules are rules. Last year this player was aware that they should not be using the driver this year and even though they havn’t played this year yet I know when they do tee it up it will be with the non conforming driver. Now being a friend I’ll have a word with them about it before the next round but if they continue to use it should I tell someone of authority? Even though this driver is harder to hit and doesn’t go as far as a current model conforming model

I wouldn’t worry about it unless he plays in your group.

I say let him go, I believe it is a self regulating rule. If he is comfortable let him go.

I don’t want to see the non conforming driver nazi’s on the first tee at my club. If he doesn’t do anything about it he probably doesn’t call a penalty on himself either?

My 2 cents.

personally it doesn’t bother me as I know this club is not helping his game just thought I’d ask the question to see what most people would do.

on a different note, over the last few years I’ve hit a quite few non conforming drivers and for the majority of golfers I dont think they could pick the differance or have any advantage at all with these clubs

Agree X100.

I will stick with the conspiracy theory, I think club manufacturers want to sell more clubs, I don’t think the non conforming drivers will help the average golfer anyway.

If it was me i’d take the p1ss out of him if he was in my group.
Tell him something like “the contents of Courtney loves medicine cabinet is more legal than his driver” just before he tees off.

I have a moral dilemma.

I know a golfer that still has a nonconforming driver (hasn’t played this year yet).

I don’t think this a moral dilemma. The moral is that the golfer is cheating under the Rules by using a non-conforming driver. So it’s just a matter of the action you are prepared to take. It’s a matter of how you handle the issue so it doesn’t result in people getting their backs up, or you losing a friend.

Talk again to the golfer in question and make sure they understand that a non-conforming driver cannot be used in competition. You need to press the “golf is a game of honour” line, and that if their driver is on the non-conforming list, they are subject to the penalties under the Rules (disqualification from any event in which it is used).

Only then, if they refuse to do anything (i.e. intend to cheat), should you raise the issue with the Captain at your club. Even then I’d give the golfer the chance to fix the problem beforehand by telling them you won’t go to the Captain if they voluntarily agree to fix the non-conformance.

I wouldn’t worry about it – there are going too be many golfersin this predicament. I would only say something if he was going to use it in a board event like club championships or match play championship etc. If it were just a friendly game or a normal every day stableford event I wouldnt stress too much & certainly dont let it affect your own game.

I think the opposite!

Write a letter to council requesting they get a groove checking machine and a COR testing machine. Tell them you will expect them to carry out random checks.

Write a second letter advising them that you expect them, in line with the PGA’s stance, to begin random drug testing individuals.

Finally, ask for them to introduce a “Woosnam Check” where on the third tee an employee will count the number of clubs in every players bag.

lol!

i noticed 4 players on practice fairway all with xxio drivers but with different covers on them all playing in the comp all in the same group all with illegal non conforming drivers all c graders so i couldnt be bothered telling the club let them have that extra 20 meters

I am yet to see someone with a nonconforming driver hit it 300m. In fact I hit my new Cobra S Speed further and better than I ever hit my BB.

Up to you, but if your concerned (as you seem), talk to the pro or captain and get some signage put up around the place.

Are you serious? You are worried about a non-conforming driver that is 10 years old?

Sounds like you need to stay out of other people’s business.

Where do you draw the line between enforcing a rule of golf & not enforcing it .If you have 2 clubmembers with nonconforming drivers, one gaining an advantage & the other not how do you penalise one & not the other.how do you decide which rules you are going to enforce & which your not.

Are you serious? You are worried about a non-conforming driver that is 10 years old?

Sounds like you need to stay out of other people’s business.

A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast. – In memory of Greg Moore

If you read the original post again, I’m not worried about the driver itself but the ethics of the whole situation.

Where do you draw the line between enforcing a rule of golf & not enforcing it .If you have 2 clubmembers with nonconforming drivers, one gaining an advantage & the other not how do you penalise one & not the other.how do you decide which rules you are going to enforce & which your not.

my point exactly

If its a social round it doesn’t really matter. If its a board or medal event then you should remind the guy. Offer to let him hit your stick.

But the new conforming drivers are better than the old non-conforming drivers anyways …..

If you read the original post again, I’m not worried about the driver itself but the ethics of the whole situation.

I play with a Callaway BBII 415+ usually. Its an illegal driver. I guess I’m unethical. If I actually had someone come up and tell me that I’m playing with an illegal driver, I’d tell them to go f—k themselves.

See you on the links…

racinfarmer golf is the last game out there where your honour is everything. What do your comments say about you?

x100 i would have a quiet word with him just to remind him, this kind of thing is like bringing up with someone there inability to count or use of foot wedge, very uncomfortable.

Settle down racinfarmer. I know you’ve got a lot of guns, but thats not on.

Do the right thing.

If you told someone to f^ck off after they (politely) pointed out you were using an illegal driver then I’d expect to not see you on the links but rather I’d see you in front of the club committee explaining good reason why you should not be ejected.

Be nice to each other, yeah.

I agree with SJCG, I think your input makes absolute sense. Need more people like you on the course :)

Social round and within your group (ie just in the name of fun and if all members of your group is ok), go ahead use whatever implements you want. Non conforming clubs, balls etc, have some fun and enjoy. BUT ONLY if the members of your flight or game is OK with it.

I agree with SJCG, I think your input makes absolute sense. Need more people like you on the course :)

Social round and within your group (ie just in the name of fun and if all members of your group is ok), go ahead use whatever implements you want. Non conforming clubs, balls etc, have some fun and enjoy. BUT ONLY if the members of your flight or game is OK with it.

If you read the original post again, I’m not worried about the driver itself but the ethics of the whole situation.

I play with a Callaway BBII 415+ usually. Its an illegal driver. I guess I’m unethical. If I actually had someone come up and tell me that I’m playing with an illegal driver, I’d tell them to go f—k themselves.

See you on the links…

A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast. – In memory of Greg Moore

Which other rules do you dislike &/or ignore.If we all played the game ignoring rules that we did not think were important the whole thing would become one big joke.People who ignore rules that they do not agree with just make life much more difficult for the officials trying to enforce those rules.

X100,

It is a good thing to bring up the issue…but I have some questions for you and some clarifications to make about the rule.

You say “I know a golfer that still has a nonconforming driver (hasn’t played this year yet). Now this driver is about 10 years old and is probably more of a hinderance than a help but rules are rules. Last year this player was aware that they should not be using the driver this year…”

If a club is manufactured before 1999, the club will be deemed to be on the conforming list as they are assumed by the R&A to conform the spring effect specs.

When you say his club is about 10 years old, you will have to KNOW. If it is 10 years old, his driver is ok.

However, you assert that he knows it will be non-conforming. Has he actually looked it up on the list to confirm this?

I think this point needs actual clarification.

On a wider note, here is a FAQ link to the R&A re conforming drivers. Anyone who reads this thread really should take 5 minutes to read it, as it answers the core questions regarding this issue.

http://www.randa.org/news/files/FAQ%20Drivers.htm

Everyone should note too that although clubs cannot choose to ignore the requirement for conforming drivers, it is up to players to be honest about if their club conforms or not. That is what Publish & POM are commenting upon.

A couple more interesting points;

It is not a penalty to have it in your bag during a round.

It is 2 penalty strokes if you use it, to a maximum of 4 penalty strokes for the round if you use it more than twice..

The Note to Rule 4-1, which is the core rule of this issue, talks about drivers having to be on the conforming list if used. Please note that this is designed to be a Condition of Competition for tournaments involving EXPERT players and in no way should be instituted by clubs for everyday comp play. We are talking at least state level amateur or higher amateur level and professional level here.

One last thing. Any wooden headed club that you have in the cupboards at home. Manufactured prior to 1999, they are deemed to conform. If you chuck one in the bag for fun to bring back the halcyon days, it’s okay to use it….

Cheers
Trysil

It is not a penalty to have it in your bag during a round.

It is 2 penalty strokes if you use it, to a maximum of 4 penalty strokes for the round if you use it more than twice.

See the details on p50 of the 2008-2011 Rule Book:

“PENALTY FOR CARRYING, BUT NOT MAKING STROKE WITH, CLUB OR CLUBS IN BREACH OF RULE 4-1 or 4-2:
Match play – At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred; maximum deduction per round – Two holes.
Stroke play – Two strokes for each hole at which any breach occurred; maximum penalty per round – Four strokes …

PENALTY FOR MAKING STROKE WITH A CLUB IN BREACH OF RULE 4-1 or 4-2: Disqualification.”

I agree with POM 100%, you cant choose which rules you like and which you can ignore.
If you break the rules in a club competition deliberately you are a cheat.
if you break the rules accidentially and someone calls you on it you may be dissapointed to learn your error, but that shouldnt give you cause for verbal abuse.

If we cant be self regulating we are inviting the need for the golf nazi’s, and we all want to avoid that.

AJ

It is not a penalty to have it in your bag during a round.

It is 2 penalty strokes if you use it, to a maximum of 4 penalty strokes for the round if you use it more than twice.

I think you’ll find that it’s 2 strokes per hole (max 4 strokes) for carrying, disqualification for making a stroke.

See the details on p50 of the 2008-2011 Rule Book:

“PENALTY FOR CARRYING, BUT NOT MAKING STROKE WITH, CLUB OR CLUBS IN BREACH OF RULE 4-1 or 4-2:
Match play – At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered, the state of the match is adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred; maximum deduction per round – Two holes.
Stroke play – Two strokes for each hole at which any breach occurred; maximum penalty per round – Four strokes …

PENALTY FOR MAKING STROKE WITH A CLUB IN BREACH OF RULE 4-1 or 4-2: Disqualification.”

Trentham Golf Club
http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Publish – absolutely correct. My HUGE mistake in not checking through my post before posting (I probably wouldn’t have spotted it though) Sorry about that piece of totally wrong information.

Cheers
Trysil