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Members Day...... Does it still exist at your club
Forums → Golf Talk | 66 posts
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My small country club is trying desperately to face up and deal with a dilemma of the 21st century…....... In the past Saturday was known as “Members Day”, lovely title, but given the change in peoples work patterns, we as the Board, are being asked to review this. I can understand why but as to how to change it without causing uproar could be a different matter altogether. In the past, no offense meant, lady golfers were traditionaly housewives who could play golf when they wanted, within reason. Now a lot of lady golfers are working 5 days a week and have a home to run as well. How does a club in this day and age accommodate such players??? As stated we are a small country club and not over run with players, there are a few ladies who play regularly on Saturday mornings but for reasons best known to themselves hit off at 8.30 which just doesn’t fit with some of the other lady golfers who have things that must be done before golf. So we need to reach a compromise…..... Easier said than done as it is after all “Members Day” still in the eyes of some. My personal view from my place on top of the tree at the club is that if the ladies are playing in the Ladies Comp and can’t make it to the course when other lady golfers are playing I have no problems at all with them playing alongside of the men, not in the men’s comp but just out there to play and enjoy the day out and submit their cards to the ladies comp…. One would not think that this issue was to much to ask….. WRONG!!!!!!!!! I am sure some of the men hate being out hit and out played by the ladies. So my question is, especially to those in smaller clubs how has your club dealt with this matter, because at the end of the day the more people using the course the better of the Club is…....
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pegusus can you please explain “Members day” and who is included as a member? my thoughts are women are also members if they have joined by family membership or full membership or what ever category they decided to choose to suit their playing needs i simply would have assumed a female at your club would have to hold the same right of play as what other club members have wether it be 7 day or 6 day or 5 day memberships etc what about the juniors are they able to play members day if so why cant the women? please dont get me wrong either as i understand you have no problem with women playing in their own comp on a saturday alongside the men
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all our members play together sat & sun
any one else heading home to get married?? |
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How is a compromise even possible? People will get used to the idea or leave. If it suits the club and the ladies to make the whole Saturday comp a Member and Associates comp (for want of a better description) why piss around, just do it. Pretty much how it works at ours.
This space for rent. |
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I hate the term “Members Day” with an effing passion, goes back to the deep dark days when Men where the members and Ladies where the Associate Members…............ Whenever I suggest a change some male members keep trotting out the old but Saturday is Members Day line….... oh for @#$% sake, get with the effing times. Ladies have same full rights as men, Juniors have the same full rights…......... My problem is that some of the male members would prefer that the women would still be stuck at home being their domestic servants rather than playing golf on Saturdays….. I need to come up with a solution that doesn’t create a bigger divide than already exists…...... Example: I missed the beginning of this, heard the end and thought WTF just happened. I am El President of the Club, our Secretary/Licensee is a lady Member who turned up Saturday last to play in the Ladies Comp but wanted to play her round of golf with the men. As stated above I have no objections to this at all. I am getting ready to smash a ball down the 1st when I notice said Secretary storming out of clubhouse and heading to her car. Try to find out what had happened. Apparently one of the male golfers still in the clubhouse stated that he thought that ladies should not be playing when the men were playing as ladies had an opportunity to play earlier. Secretary stated that this was not an option for her and did he really have a problem if she played in along side the men. He replied that Yes he did and didn’t want her to play…... She returned fire and called him a male chauvinist pig and stormed out…... Said male golfer followed Secretary to carpark wanting to continue the discussion and said something that was smart and in return coped both barrels and then some from the Secretary….... At this stage I decided the safest place for any mere male was nowhere near the Secretary and went and tried to play golf. Good idea in theory except my phone went into melt down. Before anybody caries on about the phone I have carry it as I have to elderly parents ….......... End result of all the above is a lot of friction within parts of the Club with people being asked to take sides. I need to fix this from the Board and hence the question posed as to how is the best way to bridge the generation gap and have male and female playing side by side and in harmony…
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Tricky one Peg. Who is asking for the review? If it was called ‘Members Day’ before ladies were invited to play on the course as associates then it is way outdated anyway. You or the board are not going to please everyone, so don’t try too. The beauty of a democracy is the ability to offer those that are affected, the chance to have an opinion and play a part in the outcome of future plans. Put it to the vote of the members. Give them up to a week before the next board meeting to cast a vote. If they choose not too, then can only blame themselves if the decision does not go the way they would have wished. Let those that take the time and care about what happens within the club, make the decision themselves. The board then just ratifies and rights into the clubs manual or whatever you use ,the decision that the members, not the board, have made for the ongoing stability of the club. You could also ask the Neanderthal and any of his Trog mates if they wish to be the Secretary/Licensee of the club. What if anything do they bring to the club?
The key to success is to learn to do something right, then do it right every time. Oh I wish….. Now a two time winner of the treasured WBT. |
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I am Generation Y – it seems strange that golf still involves a gender divide. But at my club, Saturdays are still men or “member” only. At clubs with mixed Saturday comps, are women paying the full seven day rate?
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Our lady members have been alloted 4 x tee times at the start of the afternoon field, 11am. off the 10th. Seems to work well, although 2 women have chosen to play in the mornings between 8.30 and 9am, hasn’t seemed to upset anyone !
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They nearly ended up with the option of having the License for the club as ma girl was ready to quit and made some suggestions about where some male members might find their golf sticks shoved if you catch my drift….... If that was the case I would also walk away, head held high, as I refuse to see the Club dragged back to the place it was before my board last year started a long road of making changes that have started to bring the club out of the dark ages. But as can be seen there is still some ways to go…. Check ya email Commish
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golfguy Any major event, I would expect that the Ladies take their places with the rest of the Ladies in things like their Club Champs. The problem arises from their ordinary day to day Saturday comps anything else we mere males wont see them
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Do your ladies play the same yearly fees as men. ? I know at our club it fairly much exactly as your . Members day Saturday , women and juniors have certain group tee times that they can book but not playing in the same comp. Juniors can also play in members day if they are under a certain handicap . Mixed comp on a Sunday , women’s Thursday scrounges Wednesday .
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I’m on your side, Peg. Your club is a country club that should be happy to get everyone out there for the benefit of he club as a whole, not for the benefit of machoism. I am quite happy to play with women, even if they might hit a bit shorter. A lot of them I know are heaps quicker than the blokes. And better looking :-)
“If God didn’t want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?” |
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Yes. This has been done and dusted in the courts almost 30 years ago when 14 lady members took on Keperra Golf Club for infringes to the Sex Discrimination Act of 1984. The Court ruled in favour of the lady members.
Totally ignorant about almost everything except golf. |
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Sounds like a really tricky situation, Peg. As President you’ve been charged with 2 key responsibilities: There should be room for compromise in your effort to achieve those aims. Your secretary is a good scout by the very fact she’s volunteered to play a role in the running of the club. Could you say the same for the frustrated member? If there are plenty of gaps in the Saturday timesheet there’s no grounds to exclude other categories from playing. If there are few gaps or none, compromise would be like golfguy suggested: a few slots allocated in the field. I agree that Club Championships are something separate & should be played separately, ie. fields limited to the Men or Women for that day (though a two-tee start should enable the opposite sex an opportunity to play at the rear of the field on those days?) The best clubs are inclusive places. Members unwilling to compromise are not interested in maintaining a club, motivated purely by ‘what’s in it for me’. You absolutely can afford to cut those kinds of members & do so quickly. Strong clubs need people who put in & have the interests of the whole group at heart.
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I am quite surprised at some of the cultural expectations that people have had. Roughly speaking, if a full paying member is restricted in their ability to access the club on the busiest day on the grounds of gender, this would almost certainly be actionable by that member legally. More to the point, any female member for whom the issue is important is going to decide that they don’t want to pay the money for membership to be treated as a second class citizen. As a board member, something being against the law is actually a pretty good justification for members. Culture and the way it has always been done aren’t good arguments when faced with a legal prohibition. For what it is worth, i think that the restricted tee times would be against the act as well, but if it works for your club that might be a good compromise.
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For me I couldn’t care less if the Ladies want to play in the Men’s comps. But it has to go both ways, scrap men’s and women’s comps and just have mixed fields each time. Although this may create some timesheet pressure for some clubs on Saturdays. A club I’m looking at joining has a women’s comp day on Monday mornings, I’m spewing cause I love the place but half my golf is played on Monday mornings (Construction RDO Calender), now that’s out of the question.
Hole In One Eastwood 17th 27/12/12 |
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Our 7day Lady Members have full rights on a Saturday and so they should. I cannot not see why a club should force them to play in an allotted spot.
“Golf is played between the ears” |
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I think it comes down to how much the ladies pay in annual fees.
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I agree but it really is more-so how they are perceived and treated. Are they treated as 100% equal members? We still have clubs with “associate” members where there is not an option for a lady to join as a full member. Running separate comps for each I don’t think is an issue for anyone, but accessibility to play course is where the biggest issues are- primarily Saturday morning.
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This has been an issue at our club until last year when finally the committee put their foot down clarified the issue and made a decision. Firstly it is a two way problem make no doubt about it there are female members who as opposed to any changes as the men. In fact an issue we had to confront is the definite discrimination against ‘working women’ who cannot play on Wednesdays (Ladies day) I myself do not want to play in competition rounds with women unless they hit off the same tees and are in the same competition totally. Yes no difference will equal acceptance with me. Back to what we resolved on behalf of the working women. Ladies play in the morning on Sunday (men’s Competition day) The new ladies captain is totally in favour and we even have a ladies trophy winner presentation afterwards when doing mens comp winners etc. Do not be too rattled by the explosion that happened it was always a possibility and all it is going to take is you as El Pres to have it resolved at the next committee meeting and get it done officially and then your club has a ruling. It is an administration matter that is affected by personality clashes and the club is going to have to face up to it publicly or else another pissing show will erode away at the club structure.
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This is a difficult situation for you Pegasus, but as President you have to man up and show some leadership. The first thing you MUST do, is reprimand the male member who refused to play with the Secretary and was disrespectful to her. He must be asked to apologise for his behaviour, failing which you should suspend his membership. The second thing you have to do is to pass a motion at the next committee meeting which allows all members equal playing rights on any given day. IF men, women and junior have equal rights, then there simply cannot be any reason for allocating tee times on a preferential basis. You must be strong and do the job you were elected to do. If you are weak and bow to the pressure of those who think they are better then everyone else, then you are no better than them.
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Totally agree madam my club women are still associates . But they also pay a lot less dues. I’m all for them playing whenever they like just make it equal both ways . And really if male members still would rather not play in there group it’s not hard to book a tee time without ?
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Perfect solution and fairest for all concerned. If the men want to stay with each other theyll find their own four. Keep to yr guns, wish my club would go there:-)
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I agree that there are women who are often very comfortable with existing gendered structures. Many of the women at our club who play in the mixed competition times choose to play in single gender groups (as do the men). But those also aren’t the people that you are excluding from your club by having that sort of system. BTW, I agree with Chip that you (or someone) needs to tell the member who was rude to the secretary that the behaviour is unacceptable. Even if these are dearly held rules and there is a lot of conflict, taking it out on other members is totally unacceptable. You can’t allow that sort of culture to grow, particularly if you are contemplating going through this sort of transition.
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Pegasus to at least answer part of you original post on how do other clubs handle men and women playing on the same day. We pay the same fees. Our games are structured as Now our Thursday and Saturday mixed get about 6-10 Ladies. Unlike many clubs we play the same competition, from different tees Are we pandering- probbly but it works well enough. Allows everyone the opportunity to play and be reasonably happy. Remember you are not going to keep everyone happy all the time.
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