Nikey, will revert to 70 once new tee boses constructed.
Membership is now actually unrestricted with 1 full time playing membership category only. Has pissed off a few members who don’t like playing with women on Saturdays, apparently shows some of them up a bit. :-)

Not all that many women play on Saturdays…10 if you are lucky…and half if not more are low handicappers.

Besides it’s not the women who hold up the field!!! I play medley comp on fridays and it seems to be the men who play for sheep stations who hold up the rest of us. What is it with you guys once you get to the green…why do you have to mark your ball, wait after every putt and play pass the parcel with the flag? Is this an unwritten law? Can’t you finish once you start putting??? :-)

I might just point out that the difference between an 18 handicap and 27 handicap is only one stroke on 9 of the 18 holes!!!! And, although we are generally shorter hitters than you we tend to stay on the fairway…we do not have to spend 5 minutes searching for a ball in the rough or, in my husbands case, 2 fairways across!!! :-)

Hope you get a game at Cromer Paul…well worth it.
You might also try Monash – you can play there as an unaccompanied visitor (last I heard) but there are only very limited time slots so you will need to book.

JJK,

The theory that women hold up fields is as true as people who are on handicaps between 13-15 hold up fields. Some do, some don’t.

I would think that any women playing on Saturdays would be particularly conscious of their pace of play so as to avoid being whined at by some geriatric.

From a US Survey.
2% admit to being slower than average.
50% say a golfer they regularly play with is considered to be a slow player.
65% claim they play faster than average.
94% claim slow play is at least sometimes an issue at the course they play most often

To be honest – I agree in that I reckon sometimes the women get a bad wrap. After playing in a few mixed comps most of the women I’ve played with are aware of the fact that being off 45 they need to get a wriggle on. They take their shot and quickly trundle off to their next shot.

In some ways they are more aware of their place in the field than a lot of blokes taking their 5 practice swings on each shot. Then when they get to the green take a minute or two to not only line up their putts then take another minute to make sure their little black line on their ball is correctly lined up.

Guys Cromer is a pretty course and they have done well with the newly rebuilt greens but there is a huge difference in quality at Monash. Cromer very flat and an easy walk but is built on boggy land which impacts the quality of playing surfaces.Monash would be in the top two or three courses in Sydney for quality of playing surfaces and is often rated as having the best greens in NSW.This combines with challenging sloping terrain and some great bushland and ocean views.
If you hold an official handicap you can get on at Monash midweek .Monash has secured funding for full redevelopment but is doing three holes at a time so you will always get a good game.
If Monash has had a weakness it is perhaps a mix of great holes are interspersed with some mediocre holes.The redesign by Bob Harrison seeks to address this and my tip is that Monash will finish high up the list of top Aussie courses when finished.

Hagar

Yes of course Cromer at the moment is not in the condition Monash is in but then Cromer had, for the last 12 – 18 months, 18 new greens to re-build and maintain all at the one time which pulled man hours away from other areas of the course. And now they have to build a completely new 15th hole and new 16th tee boxes. This again will pull man hours away from other areas. My hat goes off to the Super for what he has achieved in this time.

I agree with you Monash could possibly be high up the list of courses once all the work is finished but (in my opinion) only if the membership had voted to do the total redesign. Not all of what was proposed is going to be done. Shame as I thought reversing some the holes was a great idea and would have added more interest. Not sure if the mediocre holes will change all that much once it is finished but time will tell I guess. I look forward to seeing it all finished.

Hagar, both these courses are two very different courses and in good condition albeit one a bit better then the other at present. Cromer is built on the shores of Narrabeen Lake and Monash is built in amongst the gum trees and rocky outcrops. Different grasses on fairways and very different greens to each other…both enjoyable to play.

JJK
I do hear Cromer Super is very very good and has made good progress but he has a tough gig.Unfortunately the natural elements at Cromer are not ideal for turf growth .Built just above the water table fairways are boggy and very flat with nowhere for the water to run.Valley location restricts airflow and the East West orientation of many fairways creates shading issues on the fairways. Then comes the big one-the course has no quality water supply relying 100% on bore water which is full of iron which impedes turf growth.
These are contributing factors to the greens at Cromer having been rebuilt for the second time in a 5 year window.
Monash on the other hand is set in the hills gets sun and wind and has a fabulous water supply through its various dams and not surprisingly (IMO) the best playing surfaces in Sydney.
Aside from the conditioning the Monash practice facilities/driving range are first class.
I know lots of controversy around the reversal of holes etc but when you give Bob Harrison a site with the natural features and undulations at Monash you should expect something special.

JJK
I do hear Cromer Super is very very good and has made good progress but he has a tough gig.Unfortunately the natural elements at Cromer are not ideal for turf growth .Built just above the water table fairways are boggy and very flat with nowhere for the water to run.Valley location restricts airflow and the East West orientation of many fairways creates shading issues on the fairways. Then comes the big one-the course has no quality water supply relying 100% on bore water which is full of iron which impedes turf growth.
These are contributing factors to the greens at Cromer having been rebuilt for the second time in a 5 year window.
Monash on the other hand is set in the hills gets sun and wind and has a fabulous water supply through its various dams and not surprisingly (IMO) the best playing surfaces in Sydney.
Aside from the conditioning the Monash practice facilities/driving range are first class.
I know lots of controversy around the reversal of holes etc but when you give Bob Harrison a site with the natural features and undulations at Monash you should expect something special.

You seem we’ll Informed.

Monash held an Aust PGA in the early-mid 80’s so the quality is there.

If Harrison can do what he wants there and money isn’t an issue….look out….heaps of potential…...but the $$$ is an issue.

Where it lets itself down and I know in this day in age Clubhouses and other facilities aren’t a priority but it doesn’t compare to say Elanora.

Roll up your sleeves though, invest the coin; course, clubhouse and other facilities you could seriously make a statement there.

Elanora has more gloss ATM but Monash has more substance and it could Make giant strides!

Indeed very well informed Hagar (or am I correct in saying Jonathan??) Why are you so intent on rubbishing Cromer?
Is Monash so desperate for new members to pay for the re-development? Please!

When was the last time you played at Cromer Hager?
I played there yesterday and after all the rain the Northern Beaches received over the last week or so I can tell you there was no water on the course…no bog under my feet!

Water supply? Yes, Cromer are working on it.

Greens re-built twice in five years? Wasn’t the first time a re-development and the second time due to loosing them all? Other courses have lost their greens in recent times too…Pymble being one of them.

Driving Range? Please don’t leave out the fact Monash members pay to use the range now. From what I have noticed not many choose to these days. Possibly because they feel fees should cover it and the fact they are also paying a levy and will do so for the next five years.

But let us not get into a na na na feast about what Monash does/have as opposed to what Cromer doesn’t/have. (I am most willing to continue this discussion in your office Jonathan?)

Monash and Cromer are two different courses and aren’t we lucky they are? Two different experiences and both very enjoyable to play….just different!

JJK
Sorry Im not sure who “Jonathon” is so Im guessing if you March in to his office all fired up you might not get a great reception.
Look its great that your supportive of a club you love but the idea here is that everyone gets to express their views.
I think if you had a chat to the Cromer greenkeeper he would confirm that the aspects I was referring to are day to day challenges that occupy his day.
I certainly do not want to “rubbish” Cromer-such a pretty spot,great membership with a wonderful glade like feeing to many of the holes. I know many members who are just over the moon about the progress there.
Rather I was just expressing a view that of the two sites Cromers potential is potentially in the “good” catagory whereas Monash does has the potential to challenge Sydney’s Eastern suburbs standouts.

1) Hager is well informed
2) Nikey Ho tries to be but just doesn’t have the right info, perhaps talking to members but not the right ones
3) Women are no slower than men….......they’ll be playing Saturdays on all courses soon as legally, it’s discrimination if you don’t allow them. I look forward to mixed comps on any day I play.

1) Hager is well informed
2) Nikey Ho tries to be but just doesn’t have the right info, perhaps talking to members but not the right ones
3) Women are no slower than men……....they’ll be playing Saturdays on all courses soon as legally, it’s discrimination if you don’t allow them. I look forward to mixed comps on any day I play.

For the record do not underestimate what I’ve said re Monash. I speak to members who are the closet to the core there.

I wouldn’t waste my time on here BS’ing about things I don’t know.

Hagar if you are not Jonathan my apologies. But I do find it interesting that you have come out of the wood work with the comments you made and only have a total of 3 posts (all 3 in reference to Monash!)....makes me think you have changed your username recently!?

In my opinion no club deserves to be rubbished in these difficult times and especially not on an open forum. We are seeing many clubs doing it really tough these days and one comment from an individual in such a forum can do quite some damage. Cromer is a wonderful course and does not deserve the comments you made about it particularly being boggy and wet under foot when in fact it was no such thing. Again I ask when was the last time you played Cromer?

In relation to your last post – you will find the members at Monash do not want that much of a change to occur to their course and that was evident when they voted to only ‘half’ of what was proposed. Will these changes be enough to ‘challenge the eastern suburbs standouts’? Hope so but time will tell. Financing such a change is also a huge factor to consider and the members were not happy to stick their necks out that far…as it is we will be paying a levy for the next five years.

Personally I look forward to these changes. I would have liked to have seen the entire development implemented but that is not to be.

question without notice for you aficionado’s of Monash.

what is the current state of the course with the upgrades? I am supposed to be heading there for a game at end of march and would like to think i won’t be playing 15 holes only

Question without notice in relation to Monash, I don’t know the answer to this so happy to listen to those that do.
In regards to the ownership structure of Monash:
1. who actually owns the land the course is built on, the members or a separate company,
Any number of questions then flow if the members do not actually own it.

HCWT

Monash will have one temporary green as well as hole 9A, which is the chipping green in play. The new 3rd hole should be opened by the time you play in March. The course is in beautiful condition.

MisterB

As far as I am aware the course is owned by a Holding Company not the members.

Maybe Hagar would like to elaborate.

HCWT

Monash will have one temporary green as well as hole 9A, which is the chipping green in play. The new 3rd hole should be opened by the time you play in March. The course is in beautiful condition.

MisterB

As far as I am aware the course is owned by a Holding Company not the members.

Maybe Hagar would like to elaborate.

tks

JJK correct.Holding co owns land with ongoing lease to golf club at no profit ie just covering costs of holding co.Mandate of holding co to perpetuate golf course for Jews and non Jews to enjoy.(when not 4 putting)
Mister Bs point interesting e.g. Monash golf club does not own the land so cant raise funds through land sales like some clubs(not without support of holding co anyway) .Then again is that a bad thing ?
ie ambitious redevelopment at Manly delivers much needed quality to the course but cost blowouts leave a whopping debt secured with mortgage over the course….and so the dice is rolled. Brave or foolhardy? The answer will lie in the volatile mathematics of servicing costs and new members.Hopefully fortune follows the brave.
I understand Monash bank funding assisted by guarantee from generous member-nice!